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Old 08-19-2008, 06:07 PM   #15
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One thing I might add retarding timeing wont change compression it will change when cylinder fires. Stay with in spec. How High is the compression? Your still running pump gas right?
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Old 08-20-2008, 12:02 PM   #16
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Three hole starter?

Mustang, you're right. Hadn't thought about that. I was imagining valve timing, which would have an issue, but I'm sure that's set right. Hmm. So why is the starter shearing off twice in a row?

Here's a question: the starter we have mounts with only two bolts into the block. But it seems like the block has room for an extra bolt hole.

Does your starter connect with two or three bolts to the block??
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #17
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I Know it was mentioned earlier in the thread but sometimes shims play a roll, less shims would put the gears deeper together when starter is accuated. I have seen starters both ways 2 up front and 1 on a bracket at the rear for toque issues. or it may be that 1 of the old starters ground down the gears to the point that you need a new ring gear (flywheel). If the engine cranks hard timeing could be to far advanced but if it was set before it should be fine. I deal with High compression Raceing engines, and then only time I have burned up starters is when I bumped my compression over 15:1 I had to go with a gear reduction starter. The starter should not move once mounted, it becomes part of the block and will only move with the block, unless something is wrong. Really look at it. If you need to remove a shim try it, the only thing that will happen is the gears wont mesh right and you will get a grind. There is a possibility that threw all these starter swaps you got 1 with a weak bendix spring, or your battery is weak causing ampres drop.
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:57 PM   #18
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Had an old suburan with a 454 and had the same problem...

Solved it with a cheapo 12 fan for a boat that you could attach some flexible ducting to...aimed the outflow right at the starter...it ran all the time the engine was running...I used a three way switch so I could turn on the fan without the ignition to cool the starter after shutdown, etc...

Heat shield sounds like a winner also...

I saw I guy in Mexico take a funnel with a hose attached that was aimed at the starter...he carried a jug of agua, and poured some down the funnel when the thing was hot...seems there's always a 'cure' down there below the border....
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:16 PM   #19
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I just cant beleve these units came out of the factory like that, or needing that. It sound hokey. This problem didnt develpoe over night. If Airstream put a 454 in a motor home or chevy put it in there suburban. Why all the rigging to make it work? They spent countless engineering hours and time testing these rigs. Baffles the heck out of me. I would fall over if I took my SuperDuty back to Ford if it overheated and they put a fan on the starter. I would say tell that to the jury with a straight face.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:25 PM   #20
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Dalefox,

My starter is a two bolt setup. As we have the same model and year, they may be alike.

Steve
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:10 PM   #21
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GeoPhil does it over heat ? I am really curriouse
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:03 PM   #22
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Sorry about that.

Mustang,

Yes it does. When the vehicle is hot, The only way to restart is to bring all three batteries to bear.

I hope to say that it did. I have put in a remote starter solenoid and a heat shield on the starter. I am awaiting new plug wires because the old ones are too close to the new headers I just put on. Once they come in I can start it up and see.

I don't care how much "engineering" some companies put into things, they make mistakes. I usually think of the movie "Sleeper" with Wodie Allen when the robot makes the new suit.

Steve
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:05 PM   #23
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Good luck Geo
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:44 PM   #24
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Two more cents!

For what it is worth - headers will make the problem even worse!

Answer - gear reduction ministarter - again - Jegs or Summit Racing.

These little buggers look pricey I know - but it will end the problem for good when used with my suggestion of the heatshield and solenoid.

Additionally, for what it is worth - the ministarter may be $300.00 but a factory new (GM) starter will run close to this.

Nothing against auto parts stores but I hold a very low regard for an AutoZone starter. Lifetime guarantee sure - but what does that translate into - "as many times as you want to do the labor, we will replace it" .

Do it once and do it right!

Regards,
Henry
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:41 PM   #25
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You could wrap it with that DEI tape also for a heat barrier. It is still just so hard to fathom. I do like those mini starters they draw so little ampres. Sometimes I see them on the Summit Rack. I live right by summit. (Summit Rack= scratch and dent sale) I agree with twilight zones parts axle
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Old 08-22-2008, 04:59 AM   #26
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Right on!

Good call Mustang - as you stated - the tape would also help!
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:57 PM   #27
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Axleman,

I have tried to replace the starter, but that has sure been a trip. I could not get the new one (from Summit) to shim up properly. Most likely some shortcoming of the installer.

I am going to see how the new setup works before I try a new starter again.

Mustang,

Thanks.

Steve
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:22 PM   #28
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Since the problem changed from the grinding & other noise to "nothing happens" I wonder if you have checked for corrosion on the chassis battery. A poor connection and heat will cause this problem. I found out the hard way after trying lots of stuff turned out the battery connection was corroded but didn't look bad the problem only happened when it was hot. One other thing to check is the ground from the engine to the chassis could cause the same problem.

I also suffered the heat on the starter problem but if I remember you can hear the solenoid try to engage but the starter won't turn over.

Not sure but less expensive than a Summit starter would be a NAPA hi torx starter that is about half the size of the original. I replaced one with a starter for a 1996 GM for around $140. Can't remember the 1996 vehicle the GM starter was for bu think I was a Corvette.

Garry
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