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Old 12-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #113
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Greg, I'll guarantee you rivets can indeed leak especially if they are Olympic rivets.

I had a pesky leak around my driver window and since I had the inner skin removed I sat inside while it was raining and saw the water dripping off the rivets. They were Olympic rivets used on the window.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:49 PM   #114
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It is a MUST to apply a sealant to each Olympic rivet. It makes for a bit of a mess when "popping" the rivet, but it sure beats a leak.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:00 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamquest View Post
It is a MUST to apply a sealant to each Olympic rivet. It makes for a bit of a mess when "popping" the rivet, but it sure beats a leak.
I wish someone had told the PO of my Argosy, it's covered in Olympic rivets and none have sealant
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:26 PM   #116
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I refuse to continue with any interior work until I solve the problems with the leaks. All the leaks I have now are leaking in places where the floor was rotted out when I started this mess. So they have likely been leaking for years.

I set up a simple test, it worked surprisingly well. (although the folks at Miejers looked at me a little funny when I purchased a lawn sprinkler in January)
I used some of the extra vinyl tape stripes I had left over to cover the two seams across the top of the cabin area. Sure enough that stopped 90% of the leaks. There is nothing on the outside that would appear to be a leak but, that is apparently most of my problem.
When looking on the inside I see one continuous piece of aluminum from the windshield to the point where the curved panels meet the straight panels. On the outside there is a seam with a lap joint right down the middle. For some reason they appear to have installed one layer of aluminum directly over another. The rivets seem to be leaking and water gets between the two layers and finds its way down to the top of the window frames.
It looks like they had the panel down the center mounted with rivets , then drilled them back out moved the panel 3/4" and riveted it back leaving all the holes exposed on the inside. Could all this be caused by a repair by a previous owner?
I would appreciate any suggestions.
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:54 PM   #117
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Both buck rivets and olympic rivets will leak if they were installed without vulkem. People will avoid Vulkem like the pest, because its so much harder and messy to work with.
The back part of your cap panel looks like a repair job for reasons unknown. I am sure you find out why, if you would decide to remove that panel to permanently fix your problem. What surprises me is that you dont see any damage from the inside when looking up or do you?
Does it look like the rivets on the top of your side windows where replaced?
1979 was the first year they used the 1 piece cap panel, may be they had some fitting issues on the first run.
Have you considered removing it and resealing it ?
Edit:
The more I think about it, my 79 28' had a 2 part front cap too
I always wondered if it was a repair job
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:22 PM   #118
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Peter
The panel
would call the drivers ide fender is full of Olympic rivets. Appears to be well done but must have been replaced at some point. Both the driver and passenger windows are extremely difficult to close. The latch does not seem to be in the proper position to latch closed. The latch on the drivers window is so close to the fixed window that it has scratched the glass.
I really don't want to take the roof apart but, it may come to that.
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:28 PM   #119
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my 345 had a solid panel meeting the roof panel
my current 310 has a solid panel which is about 3/4" short of meeting the roof panel and they put a narrow panel under it.
I think we see a pattern here: The first solid aluminum cap panels they made were too short.
look at fred archive 7th picture down
http://www.viewrvs.com/motorhome/air.../1979_24_c.php
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:43 PM   #120
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Quote:
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Peter
The panel
would call the drivers ide fender is full of Olympic rivets. Appears to be well done but must have been replaced at some point. Both the driver and passenger windows are extremely difficult to close. The latch does not seem to be in the proper position to latch closed. The latch on the drivers window is so close to the fixed window that it has scratched the glass.
I really don't want to take the roof apart but, it may come to that.
I never use the schlaegel type window seals, Airstream dealers want to sell you. They make windows operate even more poorly and they rust on the inside.
As I have stated many times before, use this to make them work easier:
AS1268 Flexible Flocked Lining All-Rubber | Hi-Tech Glazing Supplies
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #121
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Here, Greg, look at my 310's 1 piece cap panel where it meets the roof panel.
Obviously too short! And note all the buck rivets, so its not some overlay job.
Having established that your front roof is not some Po's hack job, but rather the factories solution for a "problem" they had AND knowing that the factory did NOT use vulkem on seams during assembly, you have 2 choices:
1. Seal it like the factory did, from the inside with tons of vulkem
2. Remove the second panel and seal it properly with vulkem during assembly.
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Old 01-17-2016, 08:50 PM   #122
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"Both the driver and passenger windows are extremely difficult to close. The latch does not seem to be in the proper position to latch closed."

After I replaced window channels, the driver's window would not close all the way. I was convinced that the frame needed to be tweaked, and stopped at the factory when we were in the area. A tech there somehow took a hammer and wooden shim to the channel, and now it's fine.
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Old 01-17-2016, 09:55 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
Here, Greg, look at my 310's 1 piece cap panel where it meets the roof panel.
Obviously too short! And note all the buck rivets, so its not some overlay job.
Having established that your front roof is not some Po's hack job, but rather the factories solution for a "problem" they had AND knowing that the factory did NOT use vulkem on seams during assembly, you have 2 choices:
1. Seal it like the factory did, from the inside with tons of vulkem
2. Remove the second panel and seal it properly with vulkem during assembly.
My 325 had been partially repaired by the PO after having had the front right corner (including the "A" pillar) heavily damaged in an accident. I had to do a lot of roof work in this same area, including replacement of the entire front passenger side sliding window and frame. Granted, I have a single piece front cap, but I was amazed at how thin that metal skin really is, and once you start drilling out rivets it can get kind of fussy. I wonder if just the thickness of a hefty bead of sealant wouldn't be enough to cause a slight misalignment of the panels (and holes) upon reassembly.

Would a reasonable third option be to leave things intact, and overlay the entire seam with say a 6-8" wide band of aluminum from one side to the other with plenty of sealant between it and the existing roof? Start from the center with fresh holes in fresh metal, and gradually squeeze things out toward the sides. It seems that separating the two panels might open can of worms when trying to re-use (or not) the existing rivet holes??
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:24 AM   #124
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Quote:
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My 325 had been partially repaired by the PO after having had the front right corner (including the "A" pillar) heavily damaged in an accident. I had to do a lot of roof work in this same area, including replacement of the entire front passenger side sliding window and frame. Granted, I have a single piece front cap, but I was amazed at how thin that metal skin really is, and once you start drilling out rivets it can get kind of fussy. I wonder if just the thickness of a hefty bead of sealant wouldn't be enough to cause a slight misalignment of the panels (and holes) upon reassembly.
You have some good points about thickness of sealant. I almost lost my center panel hole alignment when I replaced the rear three panels due to the thickness and premature curing of the vulkem. You have to move fast, so the vulkem can compress.



Quote:
Originally Posted by streamquest View Post
Would a reasonable third option be to leave things intact, and overlay the entire seam with say a 6-8" wide band of aluminum from one side to the other with plenty of sealant between it and the existing roof? Start from the center with fresh holes in fresh metal, and gradually squeeze things out toward the sides. It seems that separating the two panels might open can of worms when trying to re-use (or not) the existing rivet holes??
It certainly would require some precision drilling to reuse the same holes.
I have considered that third option before on a problem roof seam. If done with precision it could add to the looks
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:27 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waipio Rim View Post
"Both the driver and passenger windows are extremely difficult to close. The latch does not seem to be in the proper position to latch closed."

After I replaced window channels, the driver's window would not close all the way. I was convinced that the frame needed to be tweaked, and stopped at the factory when we were in the area. A tech there somehow took a hammer and wooden shim to the channel, and now it's fine.
yes the channel is just thin alu and can be easily bend to adjust the sliding window.
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:52 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
Here, Greg, look at my 310's 1 piece cap panel where it meets the roof panel.
Obviously too short! And note all the buck rivets, so its not some overlay job.
Having established that your front roof is not some Po's hack job, but rather the factories solution for a "problem" they had AND knowing that the factory did NOT use vulkem on seams during assembly, you have 2 choices:
1. Seal it like the factory did, from the inside with tons of vulkem
2. Remove the second panel and seal it properly with vulkem during assembly.
Peter, Here is a pic of how they did mine. So it is starting to make sense now. ( Is sense the right word, or should I say nonsense?) When I push on the extra panel it deflects about 1/4" until I feel the cap panel underneath.
1. It now appears to me that the factory's attempt to seal it from the inside with tons of vulkem (actually I think it is butyl sealant) never did completely seal it. The more I understand about how it was built the more I believe it leaked from the get go. All the leaks I have now correlate directly to rotten subfloors.
2. Removing the panel would involve removing both windows. Getting it out and back in looks really challenging.
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