Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-17-2015, 11:53 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Redwood City , California
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by dljosephson View Post
Airstream seems to have done some odd things to the GM factory fuse block, some extra goop on the firewall side
I always wondered if that was "factory" or not...not going to wonder about that one anymore!
__________________

__________________
http://projectupdraft.com/airstream

"We are free to go where we wish and to be what we are"
Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagall
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 11:55 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Redwood City , California
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,734
Just teasing ya!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayco View Post
Hehehehe, all joy Dean!!! Just reference to the risk of fire under the hood. (Im still trying to find the plug wires on the Isuzu)
__________________

__________________
http://projectupdraft.com/airstream

"We are free to go where we wish and to be what we are"
Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagall
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 05:42 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Redwood City , California
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,734
Tony,

The MH wiring can seem to be daunting, but I don't find it that difficult...it's just time consuming to troubleshoot. I wouldn't replace the wiring, but instead would take the time to fix the issues you have.

A few yrs back when I had the entire dash out for painting and ductwork replacement, I was amazed at the spaghetti wiring behind the gauges, but I was also amazed how the wiring was in such good condition. A few issues that I saw and dealt with were connections on the gauges and switches.

I agree with many here that the biggest issue with the wiring is broken, loose or corroded grounds. That is what most of my gremlins have been.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MH-wiring1.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	432.4 KB
ID:	250553  
__________________
http://projectupdraft.com/airstream

"We are free to go where we wish and to be what we are"
Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagall
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 05:52 PM   #18
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar

 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,781
Thanks all for the replies.

It just that every time somebody fixes an electrical system on my rig they seem to find power from somewhere or something else, add a fuse and string new wire to the system without power. At some point I think I'm going to have to pull everything, grab a new bigger fuse block and start pulling wire myself. It will probably drive me to drink or a close relationship with Xanax but not doing something is an failure waiting to happen.......again and again. This year I lost an electrical system every trip, if not two.

It all started with the burn't out fuse that sent power to the infamous yellow wire. What was Airstream thinking that a 18 gauge wire run 30+ feet would be able to supply enough power to run an air compressor, in heat and not blow?

If I did do this I would probably start replacing wire and rewiring systems BEFORE ripping out the old wiring. As each system works, go on to the next.

It's depressing looking under the dash and seeing fuses just hanging in space, no labels or explanation of what they control.

Frustrated! Heck I'm even thinking of taking an automotive electrical course this winter........

Hey! great idea.....Maybe I should approach an automotive school and ask them if they would consider the project as a lesson for students?......First question out of the kids mouth is going to be....Sir, where's your OBD connection for my code reader?

Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

ďItís a recession when your neighbor loses his job; itís a depression when you lose your own.Ē "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 11:08 PM   #19
3 Rivet Member
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 157
Images: 12
I'm not sure grounds are 95% of the problem. In my experience, bad grounds and bad crimped connections are about equal. Oh and those blue 3M (originally) snap connectors, please tell me those didn't come from the factory...

I have a hunch that re-doing the dash wiring and removing everything that's piggybacked into the GM vehicle junction block will solve most of the flakiness. Just looking at the dash wiring drawing on page G-15 of the manual is scary, but it's easy to fix given some patience. Might replace some gauges in the process. And then, when you replace all the clearance, running and turn lights with LEDs, get rid of all the flaky connectors. That's the plan, anyway...

A very important part of the process is to use real crimp connectors and crimper. You want the terminals that have two concentric metal barrels and translucent nylon sleeves. They are made to military specification and cost 40 cents to about $1.25. The right AMP or T&B crimper costs about $200 (the military version is about $600) but there are good ones for about $40. Once you have used these you may throw the rest of the terminals you have in the trash.
__________________
dljosephson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 06:30 AM   #20
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
I must say that I think well-crimped connections are fine, given dry and salt free conditions. But once moisture, and especially salt-laden moisture, gets at crimped connectors it migrates between the strands and soon you have a white/green mess. Soldered connectors are better under these conditions, but still corrosion happens. And corrosion will always happen under grounds.

Under my dash, everything looks completely chaotic, but in good shape. I would have said the quality of materials was excellent, although some things look a bit slap-dash in installation. This vehicle was not assembled by robots. I don't see any 3M snap connectors on what looks like original wiring, but a couple of later add-ons do have them.

We must always remind ourselves that none of our vehicles, even going back to the earliest Argosies, were designed to last anywhere near this long. I am sure they built them for the second or maybe third owner, with 15 years in mind max. My chassis is 27 years old and my coachwork a few months younger. I am now finding the shortcuts and design faults that the guy who paid $150,000 was never aware of.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 06:49 AM   #21
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
I did a double take on that picture, Dadstoy. Very funny. I presume this is some executive jet. Makes you never want to fly again. Actually I already never wanted to fly again.

I don't know whether I find the guy looking through the book scarier, or the two guys who aren't looking through books.

Click image for larger version

Name:	wiring.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	187.8 KB
ID:	250568
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 06:58 AM   #22
Rivet Master
 
mayco's Avatar

 
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign , Illinois
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,180
Amazon.com: Blue Snap On Connector Crimp Wire Electrical Cable ...
www.amazon.com › Home Improvement › Electrical › Cord Management
Item 9 - 20 - Amazon.com: Blue Snap On Connector Crimp Wire Electrical Cable Connectors Quick Splice Lock Wire Terminals Pack Of 100Pcs: Home ...

I didnt think you could still buy those connectors but...........

On my 310 they didnt use many of these behind the dash, mostly under the chassis on the lighting circuits and such. What bothers me the most about them is I cant actually SEE the wire connection when making the joint.

I found these on Amazon and have been using them on the inside of the rig. Bought all three sizes and they seem pretty good. Havent used them under the chassis, cant use shrink tube with them.

http://www.amazon.com/Crimp-closed-C.../dp/B00CPNBW5M
__________________
mayco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 07:08 AM   #23
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayco View Post

I found these on Amazon and have been using them on the inside of the rig. Bought all three sizes and they seem pretty good. Havent used them under the chassis, cant use shrink tube with them.

http://www.amazon.com/Crimp-closed-C.../dp/B00CPNBW5M

I have used those, or expensive ones that look the same. The only problem for us up here is that at a few degrees below zero (F) the plastic tends to shatter if impacted or stressed. Not good.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 07:56 AM   #24
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,127
Just noticed this thread. You would do well using non-insulated bare metal (tinned copper) butt and by-pass connectors properly crimped and then sealed with glue-filled heat shrink. No room for error there.

And if replacing wire, use ONLY cable with an ABYC marine rating (tinned and stranded) as the combination of the above will virtually eliminate corrosion.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 08:40 AM   #25
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Just noticed this thread. You would do well using non-insulated bare metal (tinned copper) butt and by-pass connectors properly crimped and then sealed with glue-filled heat shrink. No room for error there.

And if replacing wire, use ONLY cable with an ABYC marine rating (tinned and stranded) as the combination of the above will virtually eliminate corrosion.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
Very interesting Lew, especially the connector technique you describe.

I assume the ABYC is a marine cable. A primary concern up here is freezing, and very few plastics remain flexible under very cold (-20 to -50C, -4 to -60F) conditions, and shatter easily. This makes electric cable dangerous. A few years ago I bought a small shop heater from a big Canadian hardware chain. A shop heater heats your shop, I believe. I turned it on when my shop was at about -20C (so -4F, not even very cold), then moved the heater a foot or so and heard buzzing and crackling.... the electric cable plastic insulation had shattered! So my worry about a marine cable is that I don't see why it would have to resist very low temperatures, whereas automotive rated cable always seems to remain flexible, and therefore is safe, in any temperature I've seen here. Do you know the low temperature rating of the ABYC cable?
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 11:40 AM   #26
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,127
Interesting point. I'll have to check the wire specs. They usually rate for heat and not cold.


Lew Farber
RVIA/RVDA Nationally Certified Master Tech
Master Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
AM Solar Certified Installation Center
Lifeline Batteries**Magnum Inverters
541-490-6357
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 01:42 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 157
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster View Post
Just noticed this thread. You would do well using non-insulated bare metal (tinned copper) butt and by-pass connectors properly crimped and then sealed with glue-filled heat shrink. No room for error there.
That's the preferred approach for me too, but most people are unwilling to take that two-step process. There are non-insulated butt connectors made of seamless tin-plated copper tube, and provided you use the correct crimper, which is not the same as the one for insulated terminals, they work great and last forever in my experience.

Quote:
And if replacing wire, use ONLY cable with an ABYC marine rating (tinned and stranded) as the combination of the above will virtually eliminate corrosion.
I use military spec aircraft wire, because I have it. But yes, tinned and stranded exclusively. Lots of aircraft shops tossed out perfectly good last-generation wire, which has nylon jacket over PVC insulation, when the FAA decided that Tefzel would be required for new installations.
__________________
dljosephson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 03:38 PM   #28
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
1995 36' Classic 36
boulder , Colorado
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,236
chassis electrical replacement

Crimp vs solder is often a highly debated topic. I've work as an electrical engineer in the aerospace industry for years. I'll just make a couple points. The transition between solid and stranded as in a solder connection are highly susceptible to metal fatigue and corrosion. More so than a proper mechanical crimp. Especially in high vibration environments. A proper mechanical crimp requires the correct good quality connector and the proper crimping tool. Strain relieve is also important. The strain relief material often provides protection from corrosion. There are some good products designed for marine applications.

These work quite well but use a heat gun, not a lighter.

__________________

__________________
Kota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
P30 chassis electrical gaiaenviro Classic Motorhomes 1 05-10-2015 05:00 PM
Retractable electrical power cord replacement Excella CM Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 4 07-19-2013 11:30 AM
Electrical probs w electrical to new fridge cooling unit. Surfairstrea Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 2 05-23-2012 07:24 PM
Airstream Chassis Replacement Dismayed Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 23 08-13-2009 01:21 PM
Complete floor replacement and chassis refurm photos Jonz Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 0 09-16-2007 06:37 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.