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Old 10-16-2012, 09:44 PM   #15
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Surprise, I think what you should do is spend about twenty grand and swap in a fuel injected blown hemi and then move out of the state of Arizona, hell my brother lives in Idaho and their they all rip off all the smog equipment on their diesels and they can even carry loaded guns behind their seats there!

Oh come on, I'm just kidding!!!!!

Before you run off and do all the silly stuff that would be an absolute waste of money and time, try to solve that actual problem. High CO numbers are an indication that something is not right and this is not going to be solved by doing the silly fixes.

It sounds like you have already done many of the basics such as a tune up. I have been required to smog my MH each year over the past two. I have had to deal with CO too high at idle.

First, you should answer the question of whether you have the Federal model or the California model. If yours was originally sold in Oregon as was mine, you probably have the Federal model. It's too bad that the vin number doesn't state that. The Federal model only came with the air injection system and PCV valve. if there is no provision for an egr valve on the intake manifold, you most certainly have the Federal model. One way to tell is by the casting number on the drivers side of the Quadra-Jet carburetor, that is if it has the original or the proper replacement. You should see a number that starts with 1708. The sixth number if a 1 or 2 is Federal, if 3 or 4 it is California.

Absolutely don't add cats if it didn't come with them from the factory.

Also, absolutely do not disconnect your vacuum advance for the test! Make sure the mechanical advance and vacuum advance are functioning. Also make sure the vac.um advance is connected to the correct vacuum port. Understand the difference between non-ported and ported vacuum sources. Most distributors are connected to manifold or non-ported vacuum. This means the you have a vacuum at idle and none at full throttle. By all means remove your vacuum advance if you are drag racing your AS and have spent thousands of dollars utilizing and tuning such a system. Just joking geez!

Make sure you have no vacuum leaks and ALL vacuum lines are good and connected according to factory specs.

Do not run old fuel for your test. If that tank has been sitting around for a long time, take a nice long trip and fill up with a good brand of fuel before your test. Test with a fresh oil and filter change. Old oil will contain lots of HCs which can have an affect on the test.

You mentioned a popping in the exhaust under deceleration. If you have an air injection system, which you stated you do, this popping is almost always due to the air injection system not functioning as designed. I won't give you an unsolicited lecture on removing your air injection system...I only have one head and it has already been chopped off! There is a running joke about never buying a vehicle from Oregon because the smog equipment had been removed or disconnected. My parents lived in Oregon and so did DadsToy. My father had disconnected the air injection system by removing the belt and pulley. I spent about $70 for new pump, $10 for a pulley, two months figuring out that the pulley bolts were metric, over $300 on the diverter valve and maybe $60 on two new check valves. The original check valves had rusted out and so hot exhaust flowed the opposite direction which burned out the very expensive diverter valve and the pump itself. The vacuum line to the diverter valve was also disconnected and I almost went crazy trying to find a diagram as to where this vacuum line connected to the carburetor. my shirk says I'm all ok now as long as I stay on my meds.

If I understand correctly and that is only about 50% of the time, the air pump diverter valve will divert the pumps air to the atmosphere during high vacuum such as deceleration. If you are popping at this point, I would say the air injection system is not functioning as required. Make such your exhaust manifolds or headers are tight...air getting in here with out an air injection system is usually the reason for popping as well.

Next you mentioned a rebuilt carb...I'm assuming a Quadra-jet. This would be the next thing to look at. It may be running to rich above idle (your load test). One typical reason here is the float is improperly adjusted.

Anyway, you first need to answer the question about federal or California model. If you can find the casting number on the Q-Jet, I can tell you if it is the correct one for 1984.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:04 PM   #16
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Good solid advice Dean!
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:30 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Keyair
Good solid advice Dean!
Thanks. I was really hoping that Surprise had high CO at idle...I could tell him exactly what to do.

I love that Surprise's smog check usually indicates not accessible to the visual check...wouldn't that be great here in California. The very first thing they do here is walk inside and open the dog house to peek around! This second time I went to a different shop...recommended by the best MH/truck shop in the world, All Wheel Alignment in Redding! . The shop I went to is Richard's Automotive...great guys as well. He was looking around for a bit and I knew what he was looking for...evap canister. So I asked him what he was looking for. I told him this was the Federal model and he said that's why he can't see it. He started to look for the door sticker to see the GVWR and I told him it was 14500 and to look at the sticker on on ceiling above the the drivers seat. He said good enough for him!

He stated the main issue for CO at idle is that when 454's idle so low, they miss fire. He bumps the idle up to the max...800 something, then runs the engine at a higher rpm for a few minutes and then let's it settle down to idle to clear it out and it then passes the idle CO test. Of course proper tuneup, properly adjusted Q-Jet, good gas, engine warmed up, etc. all help out! I was the happiest person in the world when it passed a month ago!
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 PM   #18
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And I wasn't kidding about everyone in Idaho driving diesels and with all the smog equipment removed AND carrying loaded guns behind their seats...you see Idaho just like Arizona are not part of the U.S. ( that's a joke for those of you that don't get it...or is it! Interesting in deed!)
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:12 AM   #19
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If you put a diagnostic O2 sensor on it you are not working blind. I would say start with the carb. It could be dirty. The check valves for the accelerator pump could leaking all the time causeing a rich condition. Put a timing light on it and make sure the timing advance is working. It the timing is retarded it will not burn clean. Make sure you don't have any dead cylinders. Are you burning oil? Dadstoy's advice about clean oil and new gas is a good one. A good shop like a hot rod or dyno shop should be able to tune your engine with an O2 sensor.

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Old 10-17-2012, 09:32 AM   #20
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The two times I've taken the MH through emissions, they never even ask to open the dog house. They just mark down inaccessible. I'd rather not add Cats and I'd like to rip the air pump out completely. The engine is a rebuild from GM but all accessaries are original. I have read that a lean condition can cause the popping but at the same time high CO levals seem to derive from overly rich conditions.....Go figure!
If you fail the test twice you can qualify for a waver. You can find the details online here:
ADEQ: Air Quality Division: Vehicle Emissions: If You Fail the Test
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:22 AM   #21
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Surprise:
FYI.
Note that from the book, there is a #1 notation next to the ignition timing spec...
That means that the Vacuum advance should be disconnected and the line plugged for the timing setting/check.

My link to Using Gas analyzer reading does work.... its just slow or redirects...
Using Gas Analyzer Readings

Here is what it says about High Co readings...

1) High Carbon Monoxide (CO) readings usually indicate a fuel mixture richer than ideal (rich mixture - air fuel ratio below 14.7). In general CO is an indicator of combustion efficiency. The amount of CO in a vehicle’s exhaust is directly related to its air-fuel ratio. High CO levels result from inadequate O2 supply needed for complete combustion. This is caused by a too rich mixture - too much fuel or not enough air (AFR readings below the optimal 14.7, Lambda below 1.0). Circumstances that can lead to high CO emissions:
* Low idle speed
* Improper float settings in carbureted vehicles
* Dirty or restricted air filters
*Excessively dirty or contaminated oil
*Saturated charcoal canister
*Non-functioning PCV valve system
*Improper operation of the fuel delivery system
*Improperly functioning thermactor system
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair
Surprise:
FYI.
Note that from the book, there is a #1 notation next to the ignition timing spec...
That means that the Vacuum advance should be disconnected and the line plugged for the timing setting/check.
That's true, but don't disconnect it for the smog test, which I was assuming Surprise was referring to.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:31 AM   #23
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That's true, but don't disconnect it for the smog test, which I was assuming Surprise was referring to.

I got ya Dean, I also read his other thread about setting the timing but wanted to point it out here and reference the "Smog Bible".
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:04 PM   #24
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Check to see if the vacuum diaphram on the distributor is even working. Many times they get a hole in them and won't work. This could mean your timing advance is retarded too much causing high CO numbers under load. The easy way to tell if the diaphram is working is to hook it to a hand operated vacuum pump. If it is working the engine RPM will change when you pull a vacuum. If it does not change, then the diaphram is bad. I would do a compression check on all cylinders. They should be above 100 psi and no more than about 20psi difference between any two. If you have over 140psi then you probably have a carboned up engine or one that has a higher compression ratio than a stock engine. Start with the basics. You may not have malfunctioning emmissions control systems but an out of tune engine.

Perry
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:30 PM   #25
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Ok, getting some great advice from you guys, lets see if I can answer some technical questions for ya. It looks from the pics mine is a federal model. No vacuum canister, no egr. Compression is good, no leaks anywhere, vacuum or exhaust gasket. Carb is rebuilt correctly (new acclerator pump, properly set float, etc). Oil is clean, as is the air filter, pcv valve too! I'm thinking dadstoy is correct with the smog pump system being the culprit! I'll remove it piece by piece and inspect it next.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #26
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:36 PM   #27
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Sorry for duplicate pics. My smart phone is too smart for me!
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:54 PM   #28
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On a side note, my wife is complaining that I spend to much time on these forums when she's trying to talk to me. How do you fix that? Haha!
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