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Old 04-20-2016, 10:45 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
The access on the donor is pretty straight forward. Remove the two bolts that clamp the center grille to the headlight castings and the grille pivots forward. Remove the lower bolts (between the grille and the castings) and the center comes right out.
Wow, compared to the 74-76 Argosies it should be fairly easy to get the radiator out of the chassis. I had been sitting here trying to figure out how to get Peanut jacked up high enough in front to drop the radiator out the bottom.

Life just got easier
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:54 AM   #100
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Martin, do you know if this piece is removable? If it is that will provide even more clearance.
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ID:	261066

Also if it is removable and you can get it off the donor you should pull it for a spare.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:28 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Martin, do you know if this piece is removable? If it is that will provide even more clearance.
Attachment 261066

Also if it is removable and you can get it off the donor you should pull it for a spare.
Yes Brad, that part is easily removed - once you get the bumper off. It is the center section of the three piece Front Bumper Fairing (the lower valance on the later models).





The two end sections are what what I dropped off during my visit.

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Old 04-20-2016, 05:46 PM   #102
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Peanut's Radiator

Brad,
I have taken the radiator out of my 77 Argosy 20 several times without removing that center piece or the bumper. When I took it out I didn't take it out below but out the front as in the picture that you posted.

After draining and disconnecting the hoses, transmission cooling lines and the radiator fill nozzle at the top, then I removed the fasteners from the lower brackets at the chassis frame. They screw into the radiator sub-frame through the angle brackets at the chassis frame. There is also some straps fastened to the radiator sub-frame about midway up -- they need to also be disconnected. At the top is a little bracket/clamp holding the oil dipstick tube that needs to be disconnected.

With all of that the radiator in its sub-frame can be tilted out at the top and worked out the front.

Consider a re-core with it out
Good Luck,
Gregg W
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:43 PM   #103
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Thanks for the info Gregg. Part of the reason I asked about that center section was because the bumper has to be removed from Peanut no matter what for replacement and as well as the for the faring and fender repairs. I figure if it's got to come off anyway the more space the merrier!

Your description makes it sound easy! Did you have to do anything with the shroud on the back of the radiator while you were removing or installing the radiator?

Thanks!
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:48 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
Yes Brad, that part is easily removed - once you get the bumper off. It is the center section of the three piece Front Bumper Fairing (the lower valance on the later models).

While I'm working on the front section of the motorhome I'll take a look at those pesky bumper bolts. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will just unscrew

I spent over 2 hours this evening trying to get the front center grille section removed. There's 6 bolts and I got five and three quarters of them removed. The last bolt I managed to get the nut to screw all the way to the end of the bolt and it jammed solid. Of course it's also the hardest one to reach at the lower left front

I'll tackle it again tomorrow possibly with a dremel and cutoff wheel. Did I ever mention that Airstream sure made these things really hard to work on?!
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:02 PM   #105
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Brad,
Excuse my "older" memory. I forgot about the fan shroud.

On the shroud, I did unbolt it and pushed it back up over the fan.

Those six bolts in the center section are difficult to reach. I have had some of them freeze up and then were cut off - not much room there. The local hardware store had stainless equivalents that went back in place of the old rusty ones.

With the radiator out the whole front of the engine is easily accessible. I bought my Argosy 20 in 1978 with 14,000 miles on it. It now has 82,000 miles. It sat up from 1994 until 2014. I ran the engine every so often but didn't drive it. With the radiator out several years ago I replaced the timing chain and water pump. A lot easier sans radiator. Last summer the seal on the power steering pump started leaking profusely. I wound up pulling the radiator again to replace the pump and other stuff. Both times the radiator came out the front.
Gregg W
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:41 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
While I'm working on the front section of the motorhome I'll take a look at those pesky bumper bolts. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will just unscrew

I spent over 2 hours this evening trying to get the front center grille section removed. There's 6 bolts and I got five and three quarters of them removed. The last bolt I managed to get the nut to screw all the way to the end of the bolt and it jammed solid. Of course it's also the hardest one to reach at the lower left front

I'll tackle it again tomorrow possibly with a dremel and cutoff wheel. Did I ever mention that Airstream sure made these things really hard to work on?!

Maybe Airstream were still working out the bugs in 1977 as the first year with those grills - the 1978 donor only has 4 bolts and the lower 2 are the pivots. Are you sure you aren't actually dismantling the grill rather than removing? I started to do that and couldn't budge the many smaller bolts. The 4 main ones are fairly hefty - 2 inch long 1/2" bolts, and go from the grill to the casting.
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:20 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
Maybe Airstream were still working out the bugs in 1977 as the first year with those grills - the 1978 donor only has 4 bolts and the lower 2 are the pivots. Are you sure you aren't actually dismantling the grill rather than removing? I started to do that and couldn't budge the many smaller bolts. The 4 main ones are fairly hefty - 2 inch long 1/2" bolts, and go from the grill to the casting.
The four lower bolts are 1/4-20 x 1-1/2" bolts and the top two bolts are 5/16-18 x 2" bolts. The lower four bolt the two end pieces to the center grille. I'm wondering if in 78 Airstream left out two of the 1/4-20 bolts or if some PO removed the grille at some point and left two of them out.

When I removed the two lower bolts on the right side and the one at the top the right side popped away from the center section about 1/4". I'm still working on the lower of the two on the left side. If my arms were about 12" longer I'd have no trouble reaching up inside via the wheel well! Tonight I'll remove the left front wheel which should make it easier for me to reach up the bolt.

Gregg also mentioned there were 6 bolts to deal with on his 77 grille. I've circled the location of the bolts in this picture of the donor.
Click image for larger version

Name:	donor grille.jpg
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Size:	448.0 KB
ID:	261104
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:24 AM   #108
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Brad,
Excuse my "older" memory. I forgot about the fan shroud.

On the shroud, I did unbolt it and pushed it back up over the fan.

Those six bolts in the center section are difficult to reach. I have had some of them freeze up and then were cut off - not much room there. The local hardware store had stainless equivalents that went back in place of the old rusty ones.

With the radiator out the whole front of the engine is easily accessible. I bought my Argosy 20 in 1978 with 14,000 miles on it. It now has 82,000 miles. It sat up from 1994 until 2014. I ran the engine every so often but didn't drive it. With the radiator out several years ago I replaced the timing chain and water pump. A lot easier sans radiator. Last summer the seal on the power steering pump started leaking profusely. I wound up pulling the radiator again to replace the pump and other stuff. Both times the radiator came out the front.
Gregg W
Gregg, you sure make things sound simple

Did you have to disconnect the a/c condenser or were you able to swing it out of the way? We don't know of if the dash a/c works yet but it would be nice not to have to break into the a/c system at this point in time.

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:29 AM   #109
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Brad and Martin,
Removing the grille on my 77 is a little more envolved.
1. First I remove the front engine access cover - one bolt on each side at the hinge arms.
2. Second I remove the six Phillips head screws (three across the top and three across the bottom) that hold the grille to the upper and lower cast cross pieces. Do not try to remove the grille yet.
3. Third unbolt the top cast cross piece. There are six bolts, one large and two smaller ones on each end. Now remove the top cross casting and then the the grille. The end pieces (with the screw holes) on the grille are easily broken off. I have had to repair my grille.

At this point there is enough room to remove the radiator out the front.

Since Brad is removing the front bumper, then the lower casting can be remove (I think 6 bolts also). My bumper is held on with countersunk bolts screwed through the aluminum bumper into the steel frame in behind. I haven't removed my bumper yet, but I do know that I will have to drill out those rusted bumper bolts. I tried once before and the head just stripped out - even with a liberal application of penetration oil.

Gregg
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:36 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
The four lower bolts are 1/4-20 x 1-1/2" bolts and the top two bolts are 5/16-18 x 2" bolts. The lower four bolt the two end pieces to the center grille. I'm wondering if in 78 Airstream left out two of the 1/4-20 bolts or if some PO removed the grille at some point and left two of them out.

When I removed the two lower bolts on the right side and the one at the top the right side popped away from the center section about 1/4". I'm still working on the lower of the two on the left side. If my arms were about 12" longer I'd have no trouble reaching up inside via the wheel well! Tonight I'll remove the left front wheel which should make it easier for me to reach up the bolt.

Gregg also mentioned there were 6 bolts to deal with on his 77 grille. I've circled the location of the bolts in this picture of the donor.
Attachment 261104
The donor only had one top, one bottom in those same locations, so as soon as the top left and top right was removed, the grill pivoted forward (rotating on the lower left/lower right bolt shaft), which meant I didn't have to touch the lower bolts until the grill had pivoted forward and gave open access to both lower nut and bolts. Not really helpful, but I removed the center section of the grill in less than 5mins. I never even looked to see if the PO had left a second bolt out - why would you use two bolts to stop something pivoting out of the way......of yes, remember, designed never to be worked on!
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:56 AM   #111
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This was bugging me so I went back to the few photos I took when dismantling the grill, zoomed in and found the evidence



There are 4 holes each side so one would assume there should should be 8 bolts in use, on the donor the lower lower has sheered off at some point so only the lower was in use, and upper upper was through bolted, but there was just an empty hole at the upper location.

HOWEVER.....if you look in the manual it says only 4 bolts should be used (which must be a top and bottom on each side). So it appears 2 of the holes on each side were not designed to be used, which sort of assumes if there are more than 4 in place then the guys at the factory or a PO has used more than needed?



I understand Gregg's message and that was what it started to try and do when I mentioned ' dismantling the grill'. I didnt have to do any of that on the donor.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:04 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWallace View Post
Brad and Martin,
Removing the grille on my 77 is a little more envolved.
1. First I remove the front engine access cover - one bolt on each side at the hinge arms.
Done.

Quote:
2. Second I remove the six Phillips head screws (three across the top and three across the bottom) that hold the grille to the upper and lower cast cross pieces. Do not try to remove the grille yet.
I haven't touched these Phillips screws. As a matter of fact I haven't seen them yet. I was concentrating on the ends where the center section was bolted to the end pieces.

Quote:
3. Third unbolt the top cast cross piece. There are six bolts, one large and two smaller ones on each end. Now remove the top cross casting and then the the grille. The end pieces (with the screw holes) on the grille are easily broken off. I have had to repair my grille.
I had thought the center grille/cast section was all one piece and I also assumed that by removing the 6 bolts, 2 each 5/16" bolts on top at each end and the other 4 bolts on the bottom, 2 at each end 1/4" bolts then the whole center grille assembly would lift away.

Here's a picture of Keyair's front with the center section removed. I've put red dots where the two lower bolts are located and the top bolt. Once those 6 bolts are removed I can't see any reason the whole assembly won't just lift away. Am I missing something?
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Name:	keyair-grille-2.jpg
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ID:	261105


Quote:
At this point there is enough room to remove the radiator out the front.
Removing the radiator is what I'm striving for!

Quote:
Since Brad is removing the front bumper, then the lower casting can be remove (I think 6 bolts also).
Lower casting?! Now I'm definitely confused

Quote:
My bumper is held on with countersunk bolts screwed through the aluminum bumper into the steel frame in behind. I haven't removed my bumper yet, but I do know that I will have to drill out those rusted bumper bolts. I tried once before and the head just stripped out - even with a liberal application of penetration oil.

Gregg
I was trying to remove the rear bumper on my Argosy the other day and the tip of the screw driver snapped off and I haven't been able to dislodge the busted tip! I think I will have to use the torch to heat the bolt head up a little to see if I can get the tip to pop out.

Nothing is ever easy on these coaches
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