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Old 07-21-2017, 02:59 PM   #541
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That's great news Brad, any success is worth having!!!!
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:03 AM   #542
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Success can be so fleeting....

The past few days Ernie has been working on replacing the Schlegel on the right side window sliding window just in front of the door. It's safe to say Airstream doesn't know how to design and build windows, at least on the Argosies

I didn't think anything could be worse than the cockpit sliders, well I was wrong. The side window has a frame contour that is totally different than that of the glass pane.
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What we're finding is the glass pane has a gradual and continual curve to it for at least 1/3 of the distance at the top and bottom. It flattens out some in the middle but not completely. The window frame doesn't follow the window pane curve at all. Once you get 2 or 3 inches up from the bottom and down from the top the frame takes a much more pronounced flat shape. I don't believe this window ever closed properly when it left the factory.

Lest you think I'm just griping for no reason, I pulled a complete 78 Argosy window frame with glass assembly out of my shop loft and looked closer at it. It's just as bad and you can see where someone tried their darnedest to get the frame track to match the curve of the glass.
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At first I was wondering if we weren't making the issue worse by using the newer all rubber style of Schlegel but then after looking at the 78 window assembly it had the original Schlegel in it.

I'm not yet sure what the best path forward is going to be, but for starters I think we need to come up with an accurate profile tracing of the glass so it can be compared to the window frame. The pictures above don't really show it but it seemed to be as much as 1/4" to 5/16" of an inch difference in profile which I think is just to much to try and overcome by bending the track in the frame.

Anyone ever try bending glass....?

Brad
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:21 PM   #543
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Here's a sketch to give you a better idea of what the problem is.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:48 PM   #544
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Only thing I can think of is one of these....



Pulling across the window uprights against a pad above and below, with the glass out of course.

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Old 07-28-2017, 04:13 PM   #545
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Martin, I have one of those hydraulic sets and Ernie and I briefly discussed using it but neither of use could think of a good way to ensure we didn't tear the wall out!

We both feel really bad about these dang windows and we're both somewhat stymied by how they could have gone all these years considering how the shapes are so different. I've reached a point where I think the owners of these coaches might have tried using the windows a few times and they gave up out of frustration.

In my last post I mentioned about the possibility that the original style of Schlegel might be a better choice and after thinking about it some more this evening that might actually be the case if for only one reason. When the glass gets really close to the side of the aluminum track the rubber Schlegel just sort of squeezes and gets pushed aside and then the glass rides against the aluminum track wall. The steel backed Schlegel might resist the squeezing and actually force or guide the glass into the track to some extent.

However based on how much that 78 Argosy window I have has been tweaked I'm not sure the original Schlegel would resist it enough. Needless to say we're both in a quandary and I've told him to stop work on the windows until we can at least come up with an alternative.

Weather permitting tomorrow we are going to try and get the left front banana wrap installed. At least that will help make it look like somethings getting done
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:08 AM   #546
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I think the key would be to pull against the top and bottom of the frame Brad, not just pull.

Almost need a big C clamp to pull a bar laid across the the inside the curve, against a frame laid across the outside upper and lower verticals.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:11 AM   #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
..

We both feel really bad about these dang windows and we're both somewhat stymied by how they could have gone all these years considering how the shapes are so different...
Just curious, Brad, have you tried the sliding window from your Argosy to see if the bend is the same?
I once replaced a windshield in a classic and the new window had a "flat" spot about 5" long on the upper side.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:20 AM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
Only thing I can think of is one of these....



Pulling across the window uprights against a pad above and below, with the glass out of course.

Attachment 290687
Brad

I would also consider taking the coach outside and orienting it with the window you want to move towards the sun, and the other as close to a build as possible.
Block up inbetween the coach and the building as tightly as you can, then on a couple of stands in the interior, lay a home jack stand ($50 bucks?) horizontally inbetween the windows. I would cut a piece of 4x4 or 2x4 in a curve as close to the curve of the walls as I could with one being bigger on the blocked window side to spread out the load as much as possible.
With the sun applying heat to the framework, start turning the jack stand to apply pressure to the framework. This could take a few hours and you will have to release and then apply pressure to allow for spring back. This method allows you by feel to judge the amount of pressure you're placing on parts.

Cheers
Tony

PS I might be suggesting the cheap slow method, but have found in the past that fast expensive methods then to do a lot of damage.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:39 AM   #549
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I've set the window problems aside for the time being and we're concentrating on other things.

The front end work on Peanut is just about done. Bunch of detail work still to go but at least it's starting to look like something again

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Old 08-07-2017, 03:32 AM   #550
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Knowing the amount of detail work that has had to go into getting him look so straight, you and Ernie have done an amazing job!
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:35 AM   #551
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Just a minor update on Peanut. The last few days I've been talking with someone close by where I live who has a 75 20' Argosy with a BF generator that is bad. In discussing with him the differences between the BF and the BFA I came to the realization that the two generators are pretty much identical with the exception of the routing of the exhaust pipe and the intake manifold.

One of the reasons I haven't installed the BFA generator Martin pulled from the donor was because Peanut originally had a BF installed and the length differences between the BF and the BFA is about 1-3/4". The BFA will fit in Peanut but it's a shoe horn fit and I haven't had the time to make the modifications to allow it to fit.

Well last night while discussing those differences I realized if I install the BF exhaust pipes on the BFA then the length problem goes away! Kinda made me feel somewhat stupid for not realizing this before

BFA
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I've already moved the BF exhaust pipe to the BFA and other than finishing up the mounting isolators the generator is now ready to install in Peanut

Brad
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:37 PM   #552
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Time for an update on Peanut

Ernie spent the afternoon working on Peanut's slider window. Previously we had used the super flexible all rubber Schlegel that Peter has been using on the Classic motorhomes with success. I'm now convinced that the flexible all rubber Schlegel is not a good option for the Argosy windows. The all rubber stuff is just to flexible to be used in windows where the curve of the window is different that the curve of the frame.

After removing the all rubber Schlegel and replacing it with the steel backed Schlegel the window now opens and closes and slides relatively easily. As I had seen in previous posts by others who had replaced the Schlegel in their windows copious amounts of silicone spray was used. We found that using silicone spray with the metal style Schlegel seems to make a huge difference. We had used silicone spray with the all rubber Schlegel with zero difference in performance, i.e. it didn't help in getting the window to close.

So now that I know the metal Schlegel works I need to get a bunch more on order


While Ernie was working on the window I spent time working on Peanut's headlights. I can safely say that Peanut is fighting tooth and nail to stay off the road. Per Martin's request I'm replacing the original headlights with the same LED bulbs that Mike used recently on his 310. Heck how hard can it be, 4-sheet metal screws per bulb, swap the bulbs and put the bulb retainers back on.

Nope, not that easy. I did manage to get the retainers off 3 of the 4 lights but the bottom two screws on the passenger side refused to come loose. The philips head screws were long past stripped and rusted in place. There is minimal to no access to the screw heads and I spent way to much time trying to figure out a way to get them out. I finally gave up and using a dremel just cut the retainer. Still haven't got the screws out but the bulbs are out and I now have better access.
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As it turns out the drivers side lower metal bucket is rusted so bad the bottom two screw tabs are basically gone. Nothing for a screw to fasten too.
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After seeing the condition of the bucket I realized the bucket just needs to be replaced, period. As they say on those late night sales commercials. "But wait! There's more....!!" I could find no way to remove the metal bucket from the housing

The headlight housing is something concocted by Airstream, imagine that. The housing itself is made from ABS plastic. With the minimal research that I've done so far it appears like the metal buckets are GM from the 73-87 series of pickups.

The ABS housings are riveted in place on the cast aluminum frame. So far as near as I can tell, in order to replace the steel bucket(s) I will need to drill out 6 rivets, all in hard to reach locations, and pry the ABS housings away from the cast aluminum frame. Needless to say that ought to make for an interesting afternoon.

The pictures below show what the the various pieces look like. This particular assembly is from Martin's donor. Having this piece to take apart will help a lot in figuring just what I will need to do to make it right. I still haven't totally given up on getting the metal bucket out without dismantling everything, but I'm not holding my breath

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Brad
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:04 PM   #553
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Brad
Good to hear you are making progress again.
I basically had the same issues with my headlights. I got the buckets from classic parts .com.
As I recall I used parts described as passenger side parts on the drivers side and visa versa. I think what i bought was for mid 80's chev pick-up's. All the info is in countdown to kick off starting with post 92.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:42 PM   #554
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Nice work Brad!
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Old 12-17-2017, 02:40 AM   #555
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Looks like good, but frustrating progress Brad!
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Old 12-17-2017, 05:58 AM   #556
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Brad
Good to hear you are making progress again.
I basically had the same issues with my headlights. I got the buckets from classic parts .com.
As I recall I used parts described as passenger side parts on the drivers side and visa versa. I think what i bought was for mid 80's chev pick-up's. All the info is in countdown to kick off starting with post 92.
Greg
Greg, just finished reading your thread about the headlights. I remember reading those posts back in 2015 when you did the work but didn't notice that you had actually removed the aluminum headlight casting! I'm not thrilled with the idea of removing the castings since Ernie and I just went to all the effort in getting those castings back in place!

I think I will try and remove the rivets from the bucket housings first. If that doesn't work I'll take some time to cry and then figure out what to try next

Last night I found that usa1industries has 1973 to 1987 chevy truck-headlights & retainer rings and they appear to be cheaper than the prices at Classic Parts.

One thing I noticed in your thread is you were looking for springs and mentioned that Classic Parts didn't have them. Did you come up with a source for the springs?

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:04 AM   #557
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Looks like good, but frustrating progress Brad!
With the emphasis on "frustrating"!!

This time around on the side window Ernie did all the work by himself. He's apparently getting somewhat proficient in the process

Over the course of the next few weeks to a month or so I'm going to try and sort out all of the chassis wiring. From what I can tell so far that should be good for giving me nightmares for weeks

I'm getting ready to order enough of the steel Schlegel to do all of the windows on Peanut. The steel Schlegel that we used was a piece I had ordered years ago for my rear side window.

What do you want me to do with all of the rubber Schlegel that is not going to be used now?
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Old 12-17-2017, 06:35 AM   #558
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Brad
I never found the exact spring. I found a similar on that was 90 degrees off. I bent it to the proper angle to make it work. Let me look in the shop. Generally when I order something that cost $1.98 and $8.00 shipping I order a few extra to be sure I have enough.😎
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:26 AM   #559
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What do you want me to do with all of the rubber Schlegel that is not going to be used now?

Assuming the cost came from the 'Peanut fund', I'm happy to offer it up to any of the guys that want to cover your cost of postage/hassle of sending - I am assuming the rubber works well on the Classic windows????
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:16 AM   #560
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Assuming the cost came from the 'Peanut fund', I'm happy to offer it up to any of the guys that want to cover your cost of postage/hassle of sending - I am assuming the rubber works well on the Classic windows????
If I get the 350, I went to look at yesterday, I would be happy to pay cost for the rubber schlegle. But the chance that they will accept my offer is rather slim. Should know in a day or so. If someone else wants them, please don't wait for me.
And yes, they work well on the classics on all the coach and cockpit windows.
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