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Old 05-19-2017, 09:27 AM   #941
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Hmmm....ominous signs before we even start out on the first trip of the year.

Bella has been sitting on shore power for the last week or so since the new cordset arrived. Everything seemed OK, Magnum inverter took the batteries through a charge cycle and they seemed to be holding fine even with the Fantastic Fans and lights etc working.

This morning I pulled the shore power, and connected up the Zamp panel to make sure that was working fine. As expected the controller showed between 13.6-13.8v and the batteries as full. I left it connected and ten minutes later I check and it is showing the P01 error (that the battery voltage was under 3v) and the controller has shut down. I connect the shore power and it runs through all three stages and returns the inverter to float. So not sure if the Zamp controller has gone down or the batteries; Better make sure there are fresh batteries in the emergency lantern just in case!
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:39 PM   #942
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When the Zamp is not hooked up and you're NOT on shore power what voltage reading do you get from the coach battery?
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:36 PM   #943
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When the Zamp is not hooked up and you're NOT on shore power what voltage reading do you get from the coach battery?
Well on Friday there was 13.6v on one battery and 13.7v; and this evening I have flat 0.0v on one and 11.2v on the second.....The lights and Fantastic Fans are still running, but I think a couple of new batteries are on the near horizon.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:10 PM   #944
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Wow, definitely a couple of dead batteries. I'd have to say you have a drain somewhere in the system.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:34 AM   #945
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Well Bella needed two new type 27 batteries (which weren't available locally so had to get mail order) and some of the wiring changed (the propane detector was wired to the live side of the battery disconnect so permanently on, plus I had to add a 110v/30amp outlet in my garage but finally all the power is back up and running again. Also found the fancy system to top up the batteries hadn't been working ( two batteries two 2.5l of water) so basically they had been toasted. With the power on and 30c plus temperatures the Fantastic Fans spring to life.... only to find the gasket was stuck to the dome, so that as the dome raised the gasket neatly peeled off. Apart from getting on the roof any suggestions for getting it back in place?
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #946
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Well Bella needed two new type 27 batteries (which weren't available locally so had to get mail order) and some of the wiring changed (the propane detector was wired to the live side of the battery disconnect so permanently on, plus I had to add a 110v/30amp outlet in my garage but finally all the power is back up and running again. Also found the fancy system to top up the batteries hadn't been working ( two batteries two 2.5l of water) so basically they had been toasted. With the power on and 30c plus temperatures the Fantastic Fans spring to life.... only to find the gasket was stuck to the dome, so that as the dome raised the gasket neatly peeled off. Apart from getting on the roof any suggestions for getting it back in place?
How many permits did you need to get shore power in your garage?!

I have a feeling you're going to need to get on Bella's roof to fix that gasket. I would imagine coming up with a reasonable method of getting onto Bella's roof is going to be something you'll need for periodic maintenance purposes. I've never figured out a quick and safe method of gaining access so if you come up with something let me know!

Brad
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:51 PM   #947
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How many permits did you need to get shore power in your garage?!

I have a feeling you're going to need to get on Bella's roof to fix that gasket. I would imagine coming up with a reasonable method of getting onto Bella's roof is going to be something you'll need for periodic maintenance purposes. I've never figured out a quick and safe method of gaining access so if you come up with something let me know!

Brad
Permits, what permits!

Medium term I have a plan Brad. The new 'carriage house' (fancy UK name for a carport!), has parallel wall-plates at 10ft 6in on the sides with no cross trusses, which means I only need something with a 12ft span that can take my weight across the wall plates and I have roof access.



The new rear drive is all done, just waiting on planning approval for the building.



Its not by accident the drive is 75ft long and the carport 25ft.....plenty of room for another couple of 20-25ft long MH

In the mean time looks like the easiest approach is to pay this guy £50!

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Old 06-18-2017, 03:41 PM   #948
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I've never read the Karma Sutra myself so can't say if what the companies name on the side of the boom truck will work for you Martin, but I'd have a box of Kleenex handy just in case.

Cheeky if you ask me, but a lot cheaper than paying a traditional hook-r and boom.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:43 PM   #949
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Permits, what permits!

Medium term I have a plan Brad. The new 'carriage house' (fancy UK name for a carport!), has parallel wall-plates at 10ft 6in on the sides with no cross trusses, which means I only need something with a 12ft span that can take my weight across the wall plates and I have roof access.
Great idea! I'll have to look into incorporating something like that at my place. I kept thinking in terms of outside, didn't dawn on me that something could be done inside

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The new rear drive is all done, just waiting on planning approval for the building.



Its not by accident the drive is 75ft long and the carport 25ft.....plenty of room for another couple of 20-25ft long MH
You've got room for three 20' Argosies

Quote:
In the mean time looks like the easiest approach is to pay this guy £50!

I don't know that I've seen anyone on this side of the pond advertise a business of this sort. Not a bad idea.
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:39 PM   #950
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Martin - Not sure if you went down the golf cart route, but if not I can recommend Varta batteries via Tanya batteries. Dual purpose. Cheap and excellent quality. Rock solid over a number of years and made my battery issues disappear.
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:15 PM   #951
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I did think of changing Nick but Bella's (pull out) battery tray was built specifically for Type 29 batteries and there is only about 1" of head room so unless the 6v are almost identical in terms of size the wont fit.
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:30 PM   #952
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I went for the varta LFD90 Varta Professional DC Leisure Battery 90Ah (930090080) - goes for about £125 from Tanya delivered
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:51 AM   #953
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They wouldn't fit in the battery tray Nick.

I went with two Hankook XV27MF(100AH)CXV (I made a mistake when I said type 29, I meant type 27 previously). So have 200AH for the coach and another 90AH up front.

I also found a couple of wiring issues. I have three battery isolators; working backwards, the first is the regular Use/Store solenoid (found in most trailers), the second is a house battery isolator (allows alternator to charge house batteries and in an emergency to start using the house batteries but also shuts off house batteries if voltage drops to low), then a physical battery isolator switch. Basically the propane/carbon monoxide detectors were wired to be live, by-passing the battery protection and so killed the batteries. Actually that is unfair....they cycled load through the batteries when the stupid water top-up system (which should take de-ionized water and top-up keep the levels) wasn't. Its reservoir level was OK but no water made it to the batteries and basically cooked them.
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:30 AM   #954
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Well, we have been using Bella in the UK for a while now and are starting to generate a list of tasks that would make things less complicated when camping here.

The first is the water system. Whereas in the US most campgrounds have water connections at the pitch this is not so in Europe. Almost mirroring the situation with grey/black tanks, water is typically bought to the pitch from a stand-pipe in a wheeled tank (think like a freshwater blueboy). At the moment we just fill the on-board tank when/before we arrive, but it means we are limited to the amount of water available without driving to the stand-pipe. Long and short of it is I am considering removing the rectangular fitted tank (under the passenger side bed) and using that location for a portable tank (http://www.jacksonsleisure.com/carav...ome-roll-tank/)



If I fit a low level outlet it will simply replace the current tank (and have to be lifted in and out of the bed base for refilling whilst camping but would maintain the connection to the regular Thetford style water fill door, if we can get close to a stand-pipe), or I am leaning towards just removing the current tank and using the wheeled tank as an external supply. Bella has a Flojet pump able to cope with a 8ft head-height so should be able to connect the wheeled tank to the outside drain line (about 2.5ft below the pump) and effectively run in via the normal winterization drain line. Means the pump will have to self prime each refill, but does this sound reasonable? My concern is the priming - Flojet aren't that clear and it could be that the pump can push up 8ft not pull from 8ft below.

The alternative is these wheeled tanks often have a submerged pump, to create a positive outlet water pressure that could connect to the current city water connection. I could go that route which means running another 12v line to the new wheeled tank pump and making the current tank/Flojet/external fill redundant (or just an unnecessary complication) which would give another 8-10sqft of storage under the bed (once the tank, pipes, valves and pumps is gone)

Choices, choices
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:22 AM   #955
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Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
Well, we have been using Bella in the UK for a while now and are starting to generate a list of tasks that would make things less complicated when camping here.

The first is the water system. Whereas in the US most campgrounds have water connections at the pitch this is not so in Europe. Almost mirroring the situation with grey/black tanks, water is typically bought to the pitch from a stand-pipe in a wheeled tank (think like a freshwater blueboy). At the moment we just fill the on-board tank when/before we arrive, but it means we are limited to the amount of water available without driving to the stand-pipe. Long and short of it is I am considering removing the rectangular fitted tank (under the passenger side bed) and using that location for a portable tank (http://www.jacksonsleisure.com/carav...ome-roll-tank/)



If I fit a low level outlet it will simply replace the current tank (and have to be lifted in and out of the bed base for refilling whilst camping
Have you considered the difficulty in lifting a full tank into place where the current tank is? I don't think I'd want to have to deal with something like that every time I went camping and/or ran out of fresh water.

Quote:
but would maintain the connection to the regular Thetford style water fill door, if we can get close to a stand-pipe), or I am leaning towards just removing the current tank and using the wheeled tank as an external supply. Bella has a Flojet pump able to cope with a 8ft head-height so should be able to connect the wheeled tank to the outside drain line (about 2.5ft below the pump) and effectively run in via the normal winterization drain line. Means the pump will have to self prime each refill, but does this sound reasonable? My concern is the priming - Flojet aren't that clear and it could be that the pump can push up 8ft not pull from 8ft below.

The alternative is these wheeled tanks often have a submerged pump, to create a positive outlet water pressure that could connect to the current city water connection. I could go that route which means running another 12v line to the new wheeled tank pump and making the current tank/Flojet/external fill redundant (or just an unnecessary complication) which would give another 8-10sqft of storage under the bed (once the tank, pipes, valves and pumps is gone)

Choices, choices
Have you considered leaving Bella as is, purchase a portable tank with a transfer pump and just pump from the portable tank into Bella's water fill door? That would eliminate any worries about head pressures, etc.

Brad
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:58 AM   #956
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Have you considered the difficulty in lifting a full tank into place where the current tank is? I don't think I'd want to have to deal with something like that every time I went camping and/or ran out of fresh water.



Have you considered leaving Bella as is, purchase a portable tank with a transfer pump and just pump from the portable tank into Bella's water fill door? That would eliminate any worries about head pressures, etc.

Brad
Yes to both questions Brad. In the first case this is why I am leaning towards the solution where I would only move it when empty. Whilst it was full I can leave it where is, when it is empty I either top it up in place (if near a stand-pipe), or take it out when empty and connect to the winterization drain, when we leave the camp ground I will empty and put back under the bed. The biggest issue with this is the 'disconnect' to let the tank be easily removed without dumping the remaining contents over the inside of the bed base.

In the second case it is simply a matter of space...to carry another tank something has to go and Denise already complains there is no space for clothes!

The solution removing the current tank/pipes/pump is the most 'elegant' but means we only have water whilst it is plugged in. The Thetford WC has it's own reservoir for emergency flushes on the move so it just means having bottled of water for other stuff.
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:01 AM   #957
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It sounds like you've thought through all of the pros and cons and you're comfortable with them as well so I'd say go for it!

I never drink the water that's in the fresh water system anyway so if the toilet has it's own reserve supply that's all you should really need while traveling between stops.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:02 AM   #958
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After buying some bits and pieces, and testing I have actually come up with a 'plan c', which is basically to revert to a similar system as used in European caravans.

The current on-board fresh water tank is going (and along with it the need to winterize), so is the on-board pump and tank plumbing. The city water inlet is also going to be replaced by an active inlet that provides power to an external pump (with a built in pressure switch so that once the water system is at pressure it stops - much like the existing on-board pump).


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This active inlet allows the external pump to be installed (powered) but also a city water hose, meaning one connector suits both uses.

Click image for larger version

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I have the setup running on the bench, now to try and get it installed - biggest challenge is connecting the new 12mm fittings to the new PEX installed in the US
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:02 AM   #959
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Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
After buying some bits and pieces, and testing I have actually come up with a 'plan c', which is basically to revert to a similar system as used in European caravans.

The current on-board fresh water tank is going (and along with it the need to winterize), so is the on-board pump and tank plumbing. The city water inlet is also going to be replaced by an active inlet that provides power to an external pump (with a built in pressure switch so that once the water system is at pressure it stops - much like the existing on-board pump).

Attachment 290308

This active inlet allows the external pump to be installed (powered) but also a city water hose, meaning one connector suits both uses.

Attachment 290309
Sounds like you have a workable plan


Quote:
I have the setup running on the bench, now to try and get it installed - biggest challenge is connecting the new 12mm fittings to the new PEX installed in the US
If the UK hadn't strayed from the Imperial system you wouldn't have this problem

I've got the same problem in reverse on my Argosy for the Contessa sink and Dometic toilet combo.


Brad
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:53 AM   #960
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It appears that the UK/European standard for RV fittings is 12mm, with hindsight I would have had Bella plumbed in 12mm PEX and just needed two converters - 12mm PEX to pump and 12mm PEX to city water inlet and would be removing both now.....actually I would have gone straight to what I am putting in now!

There is a 12mm PEX to 1/2" BSP adapter readily available here but not a 12mm PEX to 1/2" PEX adapter.

Let me know if you need any fittings!
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