Martin's Argosy Rebuild Thread

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Hadn't really thought it through Brad - as I am hoping not to have to do it. Another 80 degree day here and again no pressure!

Can't say as I blame you!

Once you hit that first 100 degree day you'll know for sure

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Next time the tank come out I will do the same Brad; at the moment I am just trying to make the current issue not the reason for having to pull the tank.

I think this little drawing from the guys you linked to, is key



I actually have some space in the cavity between the outer skin and the wet room (accessible from the cassette toilet door) that would be an ideal location for a valve link that as it is directly above the tank, higher than the filler nozzle and can easily be inspected.

I received the remote vent today and as delivered it won't work for a tank vent. It's designed to allow air into the tank but any flow going out of the tank is blocked by a check ball. It's basically a rollover protection valve.

However it will be easy to remove the check ball which should do the trick.

Brad

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I received the remote vent today and as delivered it won't work for a tank vent. It's designed to allow air into the tank but any flow going out of the tank is blocked by a check ball. It's basically a rollover protection valve.

However it will be easy to remove the check ball which should do the trick.

Brad

If you are going remove the check valve Brad aren't you just creating an hose connection from the top of the tank? Wouldn't it be better to use an aftermarket carbon canister from a EECS instead of the vent?

So far my 'fix' of scoring the gasket seems to be working, another hot day, and no pressure release on opening the tank.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

If you are going remove the check valve Brad aren't you just creating an hose connection from the top of the tank? Wouldn't it be better to use an aftermarket carbon canister from a EECS instead of the vent?

I'm not sure that's any different than the original vented caps that vented outwards or cutting the gasket to provide breathing space. The hose will be higher than the filler neck by about an inch. Not where where a carbon canister could be mounted.

So far my 'fix' of scoring the gasket seems to be working, another hot day, and no pressure release on opening the tank.

I'd say outward venting is the answer!

[Isuzusweet]

I'm sure the both of you have thought this out......but just in case........you're not venting the gas tank near anything that could possibly provide a spark or flame, like say the LP ignitor for a fridge or furnace?????

Sorry but just had a mental picuture of an Argosy trailing a sheet of flame at 70+ MPH....could scare other motorists if you know what I mean.

If not, carry on gents.

Cheers
Tony

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I'm sure the both of you have thought this out......but just in case........you're not venting the gas tank near anything that could possibly provide a spark or flame, like say the LP ignitor for a fridge or furnace?????

Sorry but just had a mental picuture of an Argosy trailing a sheet of flame at 70+ MPH....could scare other motorists if you know what I mean.

If not, carry on gents.

Cheers
Tony

In my case just next to the toilet so I should be OK as long as no one needs to strike a match!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I'm sure the both of you have thought this out......but just in case........you're not venting the gas tank near anything that could possibly provide a spark or flame, like say the LP ignitor for a fridge or furnace?????

Sorry but just had a mental picuture of an Argosy trailing a sheet of flame at 70+ MPH....could scare other motorists if you know what I mean.

If not, carry on gents.

Cheers
Tony

I was thinking about having the vent close to the tip of the exhaust pipe and use a piezo igniter next to the vent with the push button located in the dash

Actually I will likely place it inside the flap where the gas cap is. There is enough room just above the filler tube for the vent. That places the vent above the filler and exhausting to the outside.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I was thinking about having the vent close to the tip of the exhaust pipe and use a piezo igniter next to the vent with the push button located in the dash

Showing your age there mate; very retro; and not too legal in God knows how many states. The EPA would have your guts for garters.

One thing for sure, doing the same on my diesel wouldn't quite have the same effect; just leave a streak of diesel on the road.

Martin's flatulence aside gents, glad we cleared that up; carry on.

Cheers
Tony

[Smartstream]

Not trying to cause trouble here but did you consider taking a small drill to the gas cap? If it has an inner shell maybe a hole in the inner shell and another offset in the outer shell so a direct path is not created to help keep dirt out. Just thinking out loud, carry on.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Not trying to cause trouble here but did you consider taking a small drill to the gas cap? If it has an inner shell maybe a hole in the inner shell and another offset in the outer shell so a direct path is not created to help keep dirt out. Just thinking out loud, carry on.

That was my temporary fix when on the road last weekend. I couldn't risk splitting the tank again (because I am now sure the tank woes I was having towards the end of last year were due to over pressure) and the quickest easiest solution was to punch a hole (using a nail). That worked but seemed a little too 'direct'. The fix I currently have in place is to simply score the surface of the sealing gasket, and that appears to work as well.

[martin300662]

I am going to declare the tank pressurization issue 'fixed'.

Been out in Bella for a couple of hours, plenty of time for the 1/4 full tank to get really hot.....no pressure, but also no petrol smell under the flap. Seems the grooves I cut into the seal are deep enough to allow access pressure to release but also small enough (when squeezed under the cap) to not allow excess venting.



The reason for the journey was Bella's annual inspection; the good news is she passed without any advisories (which also means she is road legal for upto six months when arriving in the UK).



The bad news is I have found another issue; I have been getting a visible amount of liquid around the throttle pedal in the drivers foot-well. Rather stupidly I have been feeling the carpet (black) and thinking it didn't feel wet. I have mopped it up with a clothe and noticed it had color but just assumed the carpet was dirty. It also appeared no matter if it had been raining or not so I had assumed it was just condensate from the new A/C. What I hadn't done is put 2 + 2 together and realized I was continually topping my Bella's oil, because the mechanical oil pressure gauge is leaking and I am getting a fine mist of oil spraying over the whole area. Not sure if it is a joint leaking of some more serious yet, but at least I know why the carpet didn't feel wet!

[bkahler]

Good news about the fuel tank and the inspection! Bad news about the oil line

Getting rid of that oil line is just one of many reasons I wanted to upgrade to all electronic style gauges. Hopefully all you have to do is just replace the nut and ferrule and be done with it.

[cdufault]

Wow, wow, wow. Am very impressed and motivated by your effort. But when complete you may not park next to me (JK!) Am following your progress closely. -cd

[martin300662]

Panic stations yesterday. Today is moving day, so yesterday afternoon I went to start Bella to take to AS NE for short term storage. Well Bella wasn't keen on the idea and would not start. The tank wasn't pressurized this time but the fuel lines were vapor locked, nothing to the carb. Added 5 gallons fuel in case the tank was low, nothing; turned over with the fuel line disconnected, nothing. It was only when the outside temp dropped below about 85 (later in the evening) that she fired straight up and ran fine.

Panic over (I don't think the new buyers would be happy finding Bella dumped in the drive!) and Bella is over in storage so I can now get on with the rest of the move. But I suspect an auxiliary electric fuel pump is in Bella's future.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Panic stations yesterday. Today is moving day, so yesterday afternoon I went to start Bella to take to AS NE for short term storage. Well Bella wasn't keen on the idea and would not start. The tank wasn't pressurized this time but the fuel lines were vapor locked, nothing to the carb. Added 5 gallons fuel in case the tank was low, nothing; turned over with the fuel line disconnected, nothing. It was only when the outside temp dropped below about 85 (later in the evening) that she fired straight up and ran fine.

Panic over (I don't think the new buyers would be happy finding Bella dumped in the drive!) and Bella is over in storage so I can now get on with the rest of the move. But I suspect an auxiliary electric fuel pump is in Bella's future.

Bella's just trying to let you know that she's not thrilled with the thought of being loaded on a ship....

It sounds to me like the mechanical pump may be a little on the weak side as well. I definitely agree with the addition of an auxiliary electric pump. You can also have the new mechanical pump I removed from my 454 when I made the change to TBI.

[martin300662]

You know the Disney film The Love Bug about Herbie the beetle that has a mind of his own, well we could remake it with Bella in the starring role.

Today she was unhappy that I had left her sitting at AS NE for 10 days whilst I moved out of the house. Tank was half full of gas but she still did her 'you leave me sitting in the sun, I am going to play vapor locked' trick. It was 95 outside and over 100 under the dog house so maybe she has a point.

This time after a couple of minutes running the starter, she fires up. I do the short drive (about 800 yards) to the UPS store to get two banana wraps (removed from the donor) shipped to Brad for Peanut, so by the time she started (straight up) for the second time she was at operating temp and ready to go.The intention was to knock out the 270miles to New Jersey and rather than stop en route I pulled into the local Cumberland Farm gas station and topped up with 89.

Well Bella hated the stuff, water temp was up, misfiring, back firing on over-run, it was like she was trying to spit it out. Not a lot I could do immediately but I made here suffer for about 140miles (during which I had to limit speed to 50mph to keep her going) at which time I could top up with Mobile 89 (at premium prices at the Interstate services).

Now this could only have been a 1/4 tank (maximum) top up, but it was like she approved of the better taste....65-70mph all of the rest of the way, temp down at about 1/3 deflection, no back-firing - there is no way the addition of the new fuel made that difference but I guess she doesn't like Cumberland Farm gas!!!!

[bkahler]

Bella is certainly exhibiting some really strange behavior. Maybe before you try and start Bella after sitting for a long time you might try removing the gas cap to let the tank breath for a little bit. When Bella sits for a long time the air movement in/out of the tank is at a minimum so I'm wondering if condensation or something similar clogs the grooves you cut in the gas cap if it sits to long with no air movement.

I'm really surprised at the difference in performance between two different gas stations with the same octane rating. I wouldn't have expected that!

[martin300662]

I have got into a routine of checking the vapor pressure in the tank (just loosening the cap) each time I get in Bella and there hasn't been any noticeable build-up since I added the grooves, so I am pretty sure that part is solved. Definitely the next step would be a replacement fuel pump, and maybe a 'primer pump' - any suggestions on what to get?

On a totally different subject, Bella is getting a new feature; I ordered a Gear Vendors overdrive today after a long discussion with Nick the GV tech in Ca, and the shop who will be doing the installation. According to GV the transmission mount stays in place, the transmission is lifted/tipped to allow the tail piece to be removed, the GV is added and the length of the new drive shaft determined, they supply a new yoke for that drive shaft, and installation is completed by,

1) Mounting the controller
2) Running a feed and ground
3) Installing the floor mounted manual switch
4) Dropping the remainder of the loop to the sensor
5) Install the speed sensor, and the speedo cable extension
6) Install the modified drive shaft.....drive off

Well shall see in a couple of weeks when the parts are built and arrive.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I have got into a routine of checking the vapor pressure in the tank (just loosening the cap) each time I get in Bella and there hasn't been any noticeable build-up since I added the grooves, so I am pretty sure that part is solved. Definitely the next step would be a replacement fuel pump, and maybe a 'primer pump' - any suggestions on what to get?

I just did some research and unfortunately the mechanical fuel pumps from my 454 aren't the same as used on the 350. I would definitely replace your mechanical fuel pump and add an electric primer or booster pump as well.

Stock mechanical pumps are cheap ($30 ish) and the Carter electric pumps are in the $70 range.

On a totally different subject, Bella is getting a new feature; I ordered a Gear Vendors overdrive today after a long discussion with Nick the GV tech in Ca, and the shop who will be doing the installation. According to GV the transmission mount stays in place, the transmission is lifted/tipped to allow the tail piece to be removed, the GV is added and the length of the new drive shaft determined, they supply a new yoke for that drive shaft, and installation is completed by,

1) Mounting the controller
2) Running a feed and ground
3) Installing the floor mounted manual switch
4) Dropping the remainder of the loop to the sensor
5) Install the speed sensor, and the speedo cable extension
6) Install the modified drive shaft.....drive off

Well shall see in a couple of weeks when the parts are built and arrive.

Not having to fiddle with the transmission mount is about the best news you could get! It sounds like the only challenging part is the drive shaft modification. Any competent shop should be able to handle that.

[cdufault]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Not having to fiddle with the transmission mount is about the best news you could get! .

I'm very interested in and will be closely following your GV installation. Will there be any impact on the parking brake?