Martin's Argosy Rebuild Thread

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Guess I have a little shoveling to do before I can investigate the power issue.



Hard to believe it was 64F on Monday and even 24 hours ago was still 55F. At least Bella sits down the side of the house so missed most of the 8-10in of wet snow that got dumped on us today.

Ouch!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

One thing to think about is the fact that Bella has been some place else for a long time and if the shop doing the work used the coach batteries by turning lights on and off etc. then it's possible the batteries never had a chance to really charge well. I guess what I'm trying to say is the battery could have failed due to excessive draining with minimal or no charging taking place.

Just thinking out lout....

The Battery Doctor should have prevented that Brad, it is wired to isolate the batteries if the drop below 12.0v to prevent damage.

After some investigating it does appear the issue is on the charge circuit, or rather the mains voltage to the charge circuit. The 30amp is coming in fine to the distribution panel (a Parallex 80D), but it appears is not getting to all the sub-circuits. Confusingly the panel is supposed to be able to take the main breaker and up to 5 circuits, I only have 2 yet the entire breaker block opening is occupied....its almost like ASNE have installed the wrong type of breakers.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

The Battery Doctor should have prevented that Brad, it is wired to isolate the batteries if the drop below 12.0v to prevent damage.

After some investigating it does appear the issue is on the charge circuit, or rather the mains voltage to the charge circuit. The 30amp is coming in fine to the distribution panel (a Parallex 80D), but it appears is not getting to all the sub-circuits. Confusingly the panel is supposed to be able to take the main breaker and up to 5 circuits, I only have 2 yet the entire breaker block opening is occupied....its almost like ASNE have installed the wrong type of breakers.

Interesting problem. This may sound like a dumb question but have you verified that one of the breakers is not tripped? Sometimes the tripped position looks almost the same as the on position. I experienced just that situation while installing windows at my friends house yesterday. I just happened to hit a wire in the wall with not one but TWO screws and caused the breaker to trip. Didn't realized it had tripped until I turned off the breaker at which point I could tell that it had been tripped.

Have you pulled the breaker cover and peaked inside to see if the other three breakers have any wires connected to them?

[martin300662]

The breakers are definitely all on (I flipped them off and back on several times to make sure), and since posting I have confirmed the are the correct type (QP), it just appears the 20amp circuit to the Magnum (but also to a couple of outlets that are only live on shore/generator) is dead (or the supply to it is not live).

The breakers are only $4 at Lowes so I will change them and see what happens.

[bkahler]

I wonder what could happen in the Parallex 80D that could cause a problem like you're experiencing. Definitely an odd one.

[martin300662]

I don't think it was the Parallex itself, more likely the breaker/surge to the breaker. I swapped the breaker out this morning and now have power through the distribution panel. Unfortunately the Magnum is still lifeless; whatever caused the breaker to fail, has affected that as well.

I remember posting sometime back in the Fall that we had a power spike/outage at home. That spike tripped the Furrion PowerSmart inlet. That is directly connected to the Parallex. At the time I reset the PowerSmart and checked the main 30amp breaker and assumed everything else was OK...whats that saying "assume makes an ASS out of U and ME".

[bkahler]

Yep, my biggest problem is assuming something is when it isn't

If you had a power surge last fall then any number of issues could arise from that. I know a fully charged coach battery can last a long time if you're just turning lights on and off which is likely the case while it was in the shop all that time.

[martin300662]

Dropped of a whole range of parts at ASNE, as well as Bella, so they can quote me for completing the bodywork and paint. Couple of unexpected issues; firstly the replacement fridge vents are too big for my application (they would work great with fridges retaining the roof vent and single door, just not for twin (upper and lower) vents), and secondly there appears to be an additional strengthening bar in the door, which is in the way of installing the entrance door window. This second one was not such a surprise as I had fit 'something' when I tried to install the window myself - I immediately stopped so as to not damage something irreparably.

But I do have a question for anyone with a later motorhome with the side vents to release the heat from the engine. I have bought some of the vents but need to know the location - can someone take some measurements for me?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

...and secondly there appears to be an additional strengthening bar in the door, which is in the way of installing the entrance door window. This second one was not such a surprise as I had fit 'something' when I tried to install the window myself - I immediately stopped so as to not damage something irreparably.

That's interesting about the brace in the door. My Argosy has the same window that was used in the later Classics and from everything I've been able to determine it is original to the coach. It has the window shade and appropriate tabs to hold it.


I'm moving this window over to the door I got from John which is from a 78. I'll have to go take a look to see if there is a brace in John's door that I need to deal with.

But I do have a question for anyone with a later motorhome with the side vents to release the heat from the engine. I have bought some of the vents but need to know the location - can someone take some measurements for me?

I had those dimensions but haven't been able to find the sketch I made. If you get the dimensions would you post them here?

Brad

[martin300662]

I dismantled the (part) door I got to remove the window and it looks exactly like yours. The only difference is the roller shade is housed in an ABS shroud that mounts the roller and closes out the gap between outer and inner skin. That shroud is mounted (rivetted to the inner skin, using double sided tape to the outer skin) just above a support on the door.

On the Argosy door that support is higher and would not leave room for the ABS roller shade shroud, and is very close to the window location. When I found that the job was straight forward I have to admit I had second thoughts about fitting myself.

I am starting to think those engine vents don't have a specific location as looking for examples online I see examples with the installed behind the wheel well, over the wheel well, sometimes with a small gap to the wheel well trim, sometimes a big gap....like everything else on these things the part needs up being fitted wherever the assembly line guy fancies on that particular day

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by martin300662

On the Argosy door that support is higher and would not leave room for the ABS roller shade shroud, and is very close to the window location. When I found that the job was straight forward I have to admit I had second thoughts about fitting myself.

[bkahler]

Martin, now I remember why I stopped work on moving the window from my old door to the new door, there is a brace as you're describing in the new door.

Thinking back on it I was just going to remove the brace and install the window modifying as necessary. My original door is to buggered around the latch area to close properly so I decided that replacing the door was the best option. I could stick with the 310 door that I have now but would prefer to use the Argosy door as it uses the Keeler latch assembly and is in better shape than the 310 door.

If you have the opportunity to take some pictures once ASNE puts the window in but before the apply the inner skin I wouldn't mind seeing them!

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Martin, now I remember why I stopped work on moving the window from my old door to the new door, there is a brace as you're describing in the new door.

Thinking back on it I was just going to remove the brace and install the window modifying as necessary. My original door is to buggered around the latch area to close properly so I decided that replacing the door was the best option. I could stick with the 310 door that I have now but would prefer to use the Argosy door as it uses the Keeler latch assembly and is in better shape than the 310 door.

If you have the opportunity to take some pictures once ASNE puts the window in but before the apply the inner skin I wouldn't mind seeing them!

Brad

The window would do most of the work the brace does now. I would just replace the wider brace with the a narrower one and reuse the rivet holes, if possible.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer

The window would do most of the work the brace does now. I would just replace the wider brace with the a narrower one and reuse the rivet holes, if possible.

Unfortunately on the half door I bought, the cut was through inner/outer skin right along the center point of the brace (around the red line added to Brad's photo) - so I only had half of the new type brace.



Means what I had hoped to be an easy first attempt at 'bodywork' got complicated quickly, and I bailed!

[martin300662]

Hmmm, so the quote has just arrived from ASNE.

I will spare the details, but 187 hours of metal work and 80 hours of re-finishing (@120/hr) plus parts gives you an idea of what they think is needed to get Bella looking good.

[jm2]

Martin, I do believe that Michelangelo could be resurrected to do the job, for less!

Granted not necessarily true apples for apples comparison, but we have an estimate from Maaco where the proposition included that we would remove and replace things like the mouldings, marker lites, etc, and they would clean up the small corrosion spots, and the other small body repairs needed and the rest of the prep. Primer + 3 coats color + 2 coats clear. Including, IIRC, DuPont primers and paints, the number was about $7,500 plus sales tax. I'll have to dig that folder out to verify.

We will also get an estimate from a truck-works nearby. Perhaps we'll try to focus on that sooner than later.

Also, am told that there is an airplane painter from Teterboro who does their painting in a smaller airport in central / western MA! Waiting for that name.

[bkahler]

Must be that gold plated primer they use to protect the aluminum from corrosion that is elevating the price

When I see a price like that it's telling me they don't really want to do the work but if you're willing to pay then yeah, we'll take your money

I'm assuming you're planning looking at other options...

[jm2]

Brad, that was just the labor Martin quoted, no materials!

[martin300662]

I have just been over the ASNE to discuss in person and I think I understand where they are coming from.

The quote for 'prep and painting' is the 80 hours plus materials so not a million miles off the pricing Joseph shared but also what I had been given by a couple of other local body shops (I have a auto/marine body shop about 400yds from my house that can take big rigs and ocean going yachts).

However I had also asked for a special treatment on the roof (coating with ceramic reflective membrane) which requires all the sealant they installed last year to be taken out and re-done)

Then there is the bigger body work issues. They are including time to do significant prep and finish on the new front valance - if it is not needed they will not charge. They have also included in the estimate to replace 3 of the body panels along the rear three-quarter on the passenger side and all along the passenger side flank. This is because one of the previous owners 'bodged' a repair by riveting a panel over the original (actually over a seam on the original)



It could be that when that panel is removed there is a less extensive repair needed, maybe no replacement panel is needed at all. If they don't need to replace I wont get charged.

Lastly they have quoted to make replacement compartment doors all they way around the underfloor. This is because I have asked they get the metal of the panels to line up not make up with bondo etc.

I will just have to carefully manage them and make sure they only do what is needed, but also that they do what I am asking them to do.

As a slight aside the window is already in! Bob the tech that does the panel work had already move the strengthener (actually replaced it with a later type) and was just installing the last rivet as I arrived.

[bkahler]

Door window looks good!

I would think any work needed on the valance after it's pulled from the mold might be slight trimming around the edges, cutting the holes where the bumper supports stick out and slight contouring of the two spots where the valance mates with the wheel well trim. I did ask how close the contours would be on the new pieces and he said they should be pretty much identical to the original valance.

If the valance needs any finishing work other than the above I'll be surprised and possibly a little disappointed.

I have a suggestion for the two forward facing front bumper supports. One of the biggest hassles I had was dealing with four bumper supports that protruded through the valance. One on each side and two in front. The two facing forward caused the biggest grief because the valance has to be fitted starting at one side and sort of wrapped around to the other side. The forward supports get in the way so the opening have to be enlarged just to allow the valance to fit.

So I made a change to my forward facing supports as shown in the picture below.


I made removable supports so that the forward supports aren't in the way while fitting the valance. This will allow for much smaller holes in the valance for the supports and it made things a whole lot easier as I was installing and removing the valance a few months ago.

I used 3/8" x 2" flat bar and bent the ends to match the slight angle of the bumper. I also trimmed about 2" off the forward supports so they no longer protrude through the valance. The change allows for much smaller holes in the valance and makes installing and removing the valance a LOT easier.

One other reason I did this was due to the inflexibility of fiberglass compared to ABS plastic. The original valance is somewhat flexible due to it being plastic. I don't think the fiberglass valance will be quite as forgiving when it comes to trying to force it over protruding supports!


Brad