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10-24-2015, 11:35 AM
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#381
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer
no wait, there is more.
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Go ahead.... stir the pot. Followed by Punch's "I told you so".
Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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10-24-2015, 05:18 PM
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#382
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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I hesitate to bring this up but it might be something to check into.
Is it possible the previous shop bled the brakes and by mistake they put brake fluid in the power steering system reservoir thinking they were "topping off" the brake MC reservoir?
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-24-2015, 05:37 PM
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#383
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Anything is possible at this point Brad!
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10-29-2015, 03:00 PM
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#384
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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I said anything is possible; so believe it or not, here are all things that the new shop have found so far, any one of which could have caused the issue....
Rear brakes
The only thing salvageable is the drums and the back plates. All the wheel cylinders are blown out. On the right side the pads are down to the rivets, on the left the fluid has leaked over the pads. The lines across the back axle are physically ruptured.
Front brakes
Nothing is salvageable. The right hand caliper is totally blown out, the pads are down to the backings, the cylinder itself is out of the caliper and even the rubber boot is missing, the disc on the right has dime size lumps taken out of it. The left side is not so bad, but if we are changing calipers and discs we may as well to everything.
It appears I have only ever been driving with one working brake (the left front), luckily the right front was inoperable or I would have lost the left front as well. The rears, it appears only worked long enough to bleed and once I used (and for a short period had there brakes working) it burst the lines across the rear axle, blew out the wheel cylinders and dropped all the fluid in the rear and most of the front circuit.
Parts bill so far (not including a possible new hydroboost and MC; and the mechanics thinks they will need to be replaced when they start flushing the system), is $750 (just parts, the guy is already 8 hours labor in as well).
I feel pretty lucky to have got away with the mechanic finding all this, without me ending up in A+E and Bella in a ditch or worse!
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10-29-2015, 03:23 PM
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#385
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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I'll say this, you SHOULD have bought a lottery ticket the day you picked Bella up from the shop.
The next thing is to present the evidence to the first shop and ask them to pay for any work currently being done. If they don't want to take care of you that way there is always small claims court. I won a small claims court case against a transmission shop that installed used parts trying to save a buck.
I'll say again, you're one lucky guy
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-29-2015, 05:10 PM
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#386
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
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, _
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,382
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Wow, that sounds pretty nasty Martin. I thought you had a shop go through the entire brake system?
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
May a Firefly land upon your shoulder
and bring you good luck, good fortune, and abundance.
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10-29-2015, 05:36 PM
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#387
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadstoy
Wow, that sounds pretty nasty Martin. I thought you had a shop go through the entire brake system?
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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So far.......
The original seller 'had his mechanic' go through the brakes when the body was off
Then Airstream NE removed all the wheels/drums checked and bleed the brakes during the rebuild. Then after I drove Bella and complained the brakes were poor, they went through them again and ran the hydroboost performance test and gave it back with a clean bill of health saying the brakes were 100% and that I need to get used to them.
Then the brake warning light came on and I took it to the local shop. They 'went through everything, removed the wheels, drums, flushed and bleed the brakes'. Because the brakes went during a 'test drive', I haven't paid the bill or even got a schedule of work from the last shop (the guy is pretty put out that I took it somewhere else when the brakes failed as they still feel they were working on it), but they called me to say it was ready for the test.
So far three separate 'mechanics' have gone through the entire system although I think the current situation speakers for itself.
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10-29-2015, 05:38 PM
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#388
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Frustrating! Sorry, Martin!
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10-29-2015, 05:41 PM
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#389
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
So far three separate 'mechanics' have gone through the entire system although I think the current situation speakers for itself.
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Pictures, get lots of pictures of what this latest shop has found. I think the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words" couldn't be more true.
Another thing that worries me about all this is just how few shops really know what they're doing anymore. Kinda scary
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-29-2015, 05:45 PM
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#390
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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Martin,
I am glad to hear that your concerns are getting taking care of the right way. No matter what anyone is telling you, this is the first time the rear drums came off. You just don't go through all that work to pull the drums and put them back on with brake pads down to the metal, not to mention the leaky wheel cylinders.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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10-29-2015, 05:49 PM
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#391
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer
...this is the first time the rear drums came off. You just don't go through all that work to pull the drums and put them back on with brake pads down to the metal, not to mention the leaky wheel cylinders.
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I think Peter just nailed it.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-29-2015, 05:50 PM
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#392
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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What's that age old saying....."If you want the job done right.....do it yourself".
I can understand someone not knowing a wheel cylinder is bad and about to blow, but if I was your mechanic, I would look at the age of the vehicle and since the axles had to come out to get to your drums in the first place, I would be the first to SUGGEST replacing everything while it was apart. Wheel cylinders, pads and springs are cheap.
Unless of course they never actually took the axles out to get to the drums and still charged you.
Somebody buggered up, that's for sure. I'm glad I have rear discs.
Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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10-29-2015, 06:44 PM
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#393
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Rivet Master
1979 24' Airstream Excella 24
Tipp City
, Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 551
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I'm with you Tony. I may not always know what I am doing but, when I take something apart and inspect it with my own eyes I do know what I have. Its a shame you can't trust someone to tell you the truth. When I first got my MoHo I took it all apart and inspected it. Rubber hoses, brake lines and wheel cylinders are cheap. If there is any doubt I just replace them.
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10-29-2015, 07:03 PM
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#394
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,382
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It's an impossibility that a front set of pads and a set of rear shoes could ever wear down in a few test drives. The rear cylinders wouldn't just blow without signs of leaking before hand. And for the rear rubber brake lines over the differential to blow, they would have to be pretty badly cracked. All of this is very visible and apparent if one actually removed wheels and rear drums to inspect. From what you have said and the damage/worn out parts that you describe, there is no way that anyone actually inspected your brakes.
At this point while you are in there and have things apart, replace all wheel bearings front and rear, especially if the rear axles have to be pulled to remove the drums. Also have the shop drop the cover from the differential and drain/refill the gear oil. This is money well spent at this point in time.
If the prior shop(s) had also inspected the suspension and steering components, or even if not, also have a competent suspension guy check it all out.
Good luck with all this, but if you have a shop at this point that has found all this out, I would bet that they know what they are doing!
Always have the shop show you in person what they have found and what they are doing. Any good shop will allow you to inspect the work as they move along. Always ask, ahead of time, for all replaced parts to be returned to you for inspection.
__________________
May a Firefly land upon your shoulder
and bring you good luck, good fortune, and abundance.
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10-29-2015, 08:03 PM
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#395
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadstoy
It's an impossibility that a front set of pads and a set of rear shoes could ever wear down in a few test drives. The rear cylinders wouldn't just blow without signs of leaking before hand. And for the rear rubber brake lines over the differential to blow, they would have to be pretty badly cracked. All of this is very visible and apparent if one actually removed wheels and rear drums to inspect. From what you have said and the damage/worn out parts that you describe, there is no way that anyone actually inspected your brakes.
At this point while you are in there and have things apart, replace all wheel bearings front and rear, especially if the rear axles have to be pulled to remove the drums. Also have the shop drop the cover from the differential and drain/refill the gear oil. This is money well spent at this point in time.
If the prior shop(s) had also inspected the suspension and steering components, or even if not, also have a competent suspension guy check it all out.
Good luck with all this, but if you have a shop at this point that has found all this out, I would bet that they know what they are doing!
Always have the shop show you in person what they have found and what they are doing. Any good shop will allow you to inspect the work as they move along. Always ask, ahead of time, for all replaced parts to be returned to you for inspection.
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Agreed Dean
I have left the new shop to source the brake parts and ball joints (and I will add bearings on your advice), but these arrived today (new front and rear suspension and steering dampener - even though he has an account with Bilstein, he could not get them trade for what I paid on-line)
And the new bell cranks, crank arms and sway bar bushings are due to be delivered (from Henderson) by next Tuesday.
The mechanic advises the coils have been replaced and are HD so he would not replace...which makes a change from being told they had changed and charging when they hadn't.
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10-29-2015, 08:13 PM
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#396
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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Excellent choice on the Bilstein. Thats what I have on my 310 and on the all MH's I owned before.
Whilst you blowing all your hard earned cash, consider getting a set of Centramatics, at least for the front. I would do both axles, since those heavy drums are guaranteed to be out of balance.
Front:
Wheel Balancer 400-408 from Centramatic
rear:
Wheel Balancer 400-409 from Centramatic
If you decide to do that, I would call them and confirm the model number
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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10-30-2015, 03:03 PM
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#397
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Front and rear both order....
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10-30-2015, 04:21 PM
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#398
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
Front and rear both order....
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Awesome, I know you will drive all the way to Austin to thank me personally.
If you don't like them, a Texas size steak is on me.
You are a lucky guy to be able to get them for the front, too!
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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10-30-2015, 04:25 PM
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#399
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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Hang in there mate.
I know it seems the dipping into your wallet will never end, but hopefully one day it will at least taper off a bit. You just have to find that shop and a mechanic that will show an interest in Bella and be aware of the condition of her various systems.
Could be worst, you could have bought a sailboat or a VW Touareg diesel; both of which my boss owns and both have cost him a boatload of money to keep going.
Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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10-30-2015, 04:54 PM
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#400
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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I'm actually feeling pretty good about this round of activity as I was never happy the brakes were working, and if they had stayed like that I would never have been really comfortable driving at speed or in traffic.
Better to find out whats wrong and get it fixed rather than second guessing if something is going to let go at any point.
If things work out, then we may even still make Canopener, first week in January.
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