Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-23-2015, 07:16 PM   #361
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
😔

Sorry to hear that Martin!
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2015, 07:24 PM   #362
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
I think I'd be having a conversation with the last shop. The ending could have been a whole lot worse than what it was.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2015, 08:33 PM   #363
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
i'm not best pleased but holding off from confronting the first shop until I actually find out what is wrong (this time).

The good news is I seem to have finally found a shop and a mechanic who is a little old school and seems to know what he is talking about....fingers crossed.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 06:23 AM   #364
Rivet Master
 
mayco's Avatar
 
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign , Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,071
Wow. Bright side, you werent rolling up to a stop light with traffic. Ya never know, maybe this mishap has lead you to the right shop, with the right mechanic to finally get you past the dang brakes so you can move ahead. Ill put my money there. Good luck Martin.

Mike
mayco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 06:26 AM   #365
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Finding the right mechanic can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Here's hoping you've found one
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 07:09 AM   #366
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
i'm not best pleased but holding off from confronting the first shop until I actually find out what is wrong (this time).

The good news is I seem to have finally found a shop and a mechanic who is a little old school and seems to know what he is talking about....fingers crossed.
Having done brakes on these big beast several times, I am very curious to hear what went wrong. The rear drums require for the axle shafts to be pulled, which is a job most car repair shops try to stay away from. Once you do that you are ALWAYS better off to replace the wheel cylinders, oil seal and check or replace the bearings, besides the shoes and drum inspection.
Anything less would not be acceptable.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 08:16 AM   #367
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
Excuse this if it is only demonstrating my usual ignorance, but I believe you might have a hydroboost system on your MH. If so, then your sudden loss of fluid despite all the brake work might indicate that your fluid is being sucked into the accumulator. An occasional problem with this system.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 08:37 AM   #368
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch View Post
Excuse this if it is only demonstrating my usual ignorance, but I believe you might have a hydroboost system on your MH. If so, then your sudden loss of fluid despite all the brake work might indicate that your fluid is being sucked into the accumulator. An occasional problem with this system.
They are 2 independent systems, one uses Brake fluid the other powersteering fluid.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	brakesystem.jpg
Views:	191
Size:	19.8 KB
ID:	250938  
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 08:46 AM   #369
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
The issue is definitely the brake fluid system, the hydroboost/power steering/accumulator is working fine.

The first shop must have disturbed something, I suspect in the combination valve, as it is the only place that both the front and rear circuit are in the same place (but even then separated), and MC was empty on both sides.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:00 AM   #370
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
The issue is definitely the brake fluid system, the hydroboost/power steering/accumulator is working fine.

The first shop must have disturbed something, I suspect in the combination valve, as it is the only place that both the front and rear circuit are in the same place (but even then separated), and MC was empty on both sides.

very odd, maybe they forgot to fill it
did you see a puddle anywhere? Thats a lot of fluid
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:27 AM   #371
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
Well, at the risk of being guilty of recidivistic ignorance, I know that you can get PS fluid in your brake MC with the Hydroboost system, so I think that they must interface.........

How is your PS fluid level? Lost fluid must go somewhere, and if it isn't on the ground, where is it? In the cab? In the accumulator? I'm just trying to think of empty spaces that could take mysteriously disappearing fluid. Your brake professionals have looked at the normal and likely things, so time to think of the unlikely but possible.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:39 AM   #372
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
I reserve the right to state my opinions once all the facts are in. To speculate on where the brake fluid went on a moho this old would be redundant, although my jaundiced eye is on those pesky Airstream Gods.

You might want to get her fixed right before shipping her back home, as there are a lot more things to hit in the Old Country. I can see the headline now; "OAP claims no brakes in an American icon terrorist attack on the front gates of Buckingham Palace."

I can only hope that Martin had a spare set of skivvies after the pedal went down to the floor.

On the bright side, as Mike put it, you now know what your brake pedal feel should be, and you felt fine with it......before it crapped out on you; so that's a good thing.

Lots of luck with the old school mechanic. It's the buggers who walk out to our rigs with a laptop and an OBD connection you shake your head at.

Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:40 AM   #373
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
The hydroboost is not the issue here, and the hydroboost circuit never comes anywhere near the brake circuit.

Best way to think of hydroboost is as an amplifier, increasing the mechanical advantage of the brake pedal on the MC, and it is effort not leverage that is assisted.

martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:06 AM   #374
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
But I'm going to annoy you, because my Chevy chassis manual has this little note:

Click image for larger version

Name:	book.JPG
Views:	93
Size:	48.8 KB
ID:	250946

And I really don't see why they put it in if the systems don't get anywhere near each other.

(Plus all you have to do is a little Googling to find plenty of reports of Hydroboosts leaking into the master cylinder.) Don't shoot the messenger.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:13 AM   #375
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch View Post
But I'm going to annoy you, because my Chevy chassis manual has this little note:

Attachment 250946

And I really don't see why they put it in if the systems don't get anywhere near each other.
Because the hydroboost is an amplifier....you push the brake pedal with a certain effort, the hydroboost amplifies that effort on the MC. It is akin to changing the pivot point on the brake pedal to give a longer lever, without changing the length of the lever.

Just because the fluidic paths never come near each other, doesn't mean the hydroboost doesn't help with braking, it does.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:15 AM   #376
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
You're both right....

Yes, the hydroboost sytem is tied to the brake system and supplies boosting power for the brakes. Bad hydroboost system would lead to poor braking, or no brakes.

Yes both systems are independent of each other fluid wise. The foot note in your manual Punch is to stop anyone adding power steering fluid to the master cylinder to top up fluid as people could be confused by someone stating that the Hydroboost sytem control the brakes.

Martin has power steering so the hydroboost system is probably working.

Is that all fixed?
Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:38 AM   #377
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isuzusweet View Post
You're both right....

Yes, the hydroboost sytem is tied to the brake system and supplies boosting power for the brakes. Bad hydroboost system would lead to poor braking, or no brakes.

Yes both systems are independent of each other fluid wise. The foot note in your manual Punch is to stop anyone adding power steering fluid to the master cylinder to top up fluid as people could be confused by someone stating that the Hydroboost sytem control the brakes.

Martin has power steering so the hydroboost system is probably working.

Is that all fixed?
Cheers
Tony

OK, now I'll shut up.
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:40 AM   #378
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
Yes, Tony.

I did say a few posts back, the hydroboost/power steering is working fine and levels are all good. There is a separate test procedure for testing both the high and low pressure circuit on the hydroboost and the system passes.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:58 AM   #379
Airstream Driver
 
PeterH-350LE's Avatar
 
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
Images: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch View Post
OK, now I'll shut up.
no wait, there is more.
Both the hydroboost and the master cylinder work via pistons and seals.
A leaky hydroboost output rod piston seal would eventually help destroying the Master cylinder piston seal, but not in a rapid way Martin experienced brake failure. A catastrophic failure may even slightly pollute the brake fluid, but that is very far fetched and it would cause failure of all the power steering stuff too.
And there are 2 piston seals in the Master cylinder, which means the first one would have to fail first before reaching the second one.
Feel better now, Punch ?
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
PeterH-350LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 11:19 AM   #380
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
very odd, maybe they forgot to fill it
did you see a puddle anywhere? Thats a lot of fluid
Sorry Peter, I missed this in the exchanges.

No sign of any fluid leaks but also the MC gasket had been 'sucked' (deformed) into the cylinders (sorry for the non-technical description). To me this suggests fluid being pushed out rather than leaking.

I had driven straight from the shop to the local car park (which just happens to be next to the beach), and had been driving around braking with different levels of intensity, before the light came back on and the pedal returned to how it was previously (I didn't loose all brakes fortunately, it just went back to how it was before the repair). If they filled the MC (and I assume they did because the brakes were great for a while) then I can't rationalize both sides of the MC would be effected.
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'74 Argosy 20' Motorhome restoration/rebuild bkahler Argosy Motorhomes 2112 08-05-2023 07:43 AM
Lake Logan Martin Pell City, AL chuman70 On The Road... 0 05-23-2015 04:52 PM
Phipps Park Martin County Florida chaimemet On The Road... 2 12-06-2008 09:28 PM
Argosy rebuild list bkahler Argosy Motorhomes 2 07-25-2008 01:21 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.