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10-08-2015, 07:21 PM
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#341
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Rivet Master
1979 24' Airstream Excella 24
Tipp City
, Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 551
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Martin , are you saying that the brakes do function consistently and they feel about the same whether or not the light is on? Have you confirmed the parking brake switch is operating properly? I believe the parking brake will illuminate the same light.
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10-09-2015, 01:46 AM
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#342
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Yes the brakes feel the same....but the same bad, not the same good. But the emergency brake light is working fine.
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10-09-2015, 05:00 AM
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#343
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
Yes the brakes feel the same....but the same bad, not the same good. But the emergency brake light is working fine.
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You mention a "long" pedal. I always test for fading of the master cylinder, by putting pressure on the pedal. If it continues to fade down (without pumping), you have a bad Master Cylinder (or of course a leak somewhere). If you have to pump the pedal to gain heights and a hard pedal, you have air in the lines. Both of those conditions could activate the brake light, but also should have been detected by a brake service shop.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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10-09-2015, 06:32 AM
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#344
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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The feel of the pedal is more that I push and feel good resistance (no fade), but it is only right at the bottom of travel that the pedal really stiffens up and the brakes work. The only way I can describe it is like the hydraulics are having to move the pads a long way before braking starts
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10-09-2015, 12:09 PM
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#345
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
The feel of the pedal is more that I push and feel good resistance (no fade), but it is only right at the bottom of travel that the pedal really stiffens up and the brakes work. The only way I can describe it is like the hydraulics are having to move the pads a long way before braking starts
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I once went through 3 Master Cylinders to get rid of the issue you describe, its kinda spongy before it starts to get firm.
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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10-10-2015, 12:39 AM
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#346
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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I will have the shop replace the MC first Peter.
It appears they tried to contact me late yesterday, but technology is letting me down a little as they left a voicemail, but I have come over to the UK for a couple of days and my service provider won't let me pick it up from here. Shop is shut until Monday so I will have to wait until next week to find out what they had to say.
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10-10-2015, 06:48 AM
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#347
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Dazed and Confused
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
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Martin
IMHO the only way you will get reliable braking ALL the time is to install one of these. If I was driving back in the old country I would seriously look at this.
No brake pads to wear out and no moving parts. It has graduated braking and will stop you no matter what and probably in half the distance.
Smartstream(Dan) has one that he bought on Ebay for $200.00. I don't know if he has installed it yet.
Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.
“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
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10-10-2015, 07:53 AM
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#348
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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I had assumed these were supplementary systems. Are they intended as complete replacements?
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10-10-2015, 10:17 AM
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#349
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Rivet Master
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
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It's a supplement to your factory brake system. They really are pretty amazing. Martin check on them while you are in Europe, they are quite popular over there.
No I haven't installed mine yet. It's been a pretty busy summer with several short camping trips and now I'm in the middle of a boat building project. Maybe next year.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
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10-11-2015, 04:06 AM
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#350
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Seems like I have some investigating to do, but first job is to get the brakes I have working as they should.
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10-11-2015, 05:40 PM
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#351
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Martin, something to consider.
If your front wheel bearings are on the loose side when you drive and especially turn a corner the front rotors will wobble slightly. This wobble will push the brake caliper pistons in slightly which then requires additional pedal strokes to get the pistons to push the brake pads back into contact with the rotor.
This is a real problem on Triumph TR3 thru TR6 race cars. The spindle flexes slightly and if your bearings are loose the movement in the rotors will push the pads away. At a lot of races you'll see Triumph racers pump the brakes prior to heading into corners to get the brake pads back into contact with the rotors! The best solution for Triumph race cars is stiffer spindles and sometimes a residual valve in the line that keeps a slight amount of pressure applied. I'm not suggesting to do something like this for your Argosy. I just wanted to point out that the actual cause of a problem may not be what you expect!
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-12-2015, 02:22 AM
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#352
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Makes sense Brad, and another thing to look into.
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10-18-2015, 08:41 AM
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#353
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Quick update as not a huge amount has happened since my last post, since I have been in the UK for a couple of days this week.
Wheel bearings seem fine, and the shop can't find anything wrong at the wheels. They have found the brake fluid 'looked old' so they are going to clean and replace, but I have hit another 'gotcha'.
Colder weather, lots of time with the ignition on diagnosing the brake light, lots of starting but not running far has resulted in the expected 'dead battery' (even though it sits on a battery tender when not in use). OK so that I'm not surprised about, what I am surprised is there is a 650 CCA 'top post' battery installed (although an AC Delco Professional unit) where all the online suppliers list a 800CCA side post for a 1975 P-30 Chevy chassis (a group 78). I could put a group 78 back in but that also means changing all the battery connectors back over to side mount, so an opinions on going with a group 34, means is still 800CCA and fits but has top posts?
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10-19-2015, 07:08 AM
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#354
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Martin, I'm surprised the battery failed like it did. Since you use a battery tender I would think it would last a lot longer than what you've experienced. I'm guessing it might be a year or so old?
There are group 34/78 batteries out there that have both top and side post connections.
Does your Argosy have both batteries mounted above the radiator or have you relocated them?
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-19-2015, 07:19 AM
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#355
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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I just have the chassis battery up front (the two house batteries are now on a pull out tray under the water heater (in front of the rear wheels on the drivers side). This means I have a the entire battery tray space just for the chassis battery.
The chassis battery did come with Bella from Florida so I have no idea of the history, it could be something the PO had laying around.
Actually yesterday I think I answered my own question....of course the side posts prevent any issue of shorting the battery as you remove/insert through the front access panel (so I think are preferable), what I didn't know was you can buy screw in posts for side post batteries that let me use the current 'clamp' connections; each time I had used a side post battery previously I had changed the connectors to 'loop' and bolted straight in....d'oh!
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10-19-2015, 09:07 AM
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#356
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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So you were really dealing with a battery of unknown history. I always like to buy batteries with the largest CCA available. You never know when you're going to need that capacity!
On my Argosy I don't plan on putting the chassis battery back where it was originally. I don't like the idea of having a battery sitting above the radiator.
Since I will likely be moving my wet bath to the same location as yours I will be able to remove the black water tank will provide ample room for 2 or 3 batteries in a tray.
As for side or top post, I think for trays or drawers the side post makes a lot more sense.
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-19-2015, 10:17 AM
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#357
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Although Bella doesn't have a black tank at all (cassette toilet sees to that) I do have two grey tanks (one under the shower/basin and one under the sink) as that was simpler than trying to run pipework over/under the chassis rails. So that means on the drivers side I have propane, sink grey tank/waste gate/dump connection, battery tray (on slide out tray), and on the passenger side gas tank, shower/basin grey tank/waste gate/dump connection and steps.....there is a lot of room for anything else!
PS the under body compartments are not high enough for either the batteries or a modern propane tank, so the guys had to make a double hinge setup. This means the compartment doors hinge on a piece of 2 1/2" channel, which then hinges on the new support beam. I can open the compartment for access, or drop the door on the second hinge to pull batteries out, re-fill propane etc.
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10-19-2015, 10:28 AM
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#358
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662
Although Bella doesn't have a black tank at all (cassette toilet sees to that) I do have two grey tanks (one under the shower/basin and one under the sink) as that was simpler than trying to run pipework over/under the chassis rails. So that means on the drivers side I have propane, sink grey tank/waste gate/dump connection, battery tray (on slide out tray), and on the passenger side gas tank, shower/basin grey tank/waste gate/dump connection and steps.....there is a lot of room for anything else!
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Martin, one of the questions I had my list to talk to you about was how you plumbed the drain from the wet bath over to the drivers side gray water tank. You just answered that one
I had not intended to relocate my propane system and would prefer not to. I may have to look into a way of routing a small shower drain pipe over to the passenger side gray tank. That should be interesting
Quote:
PS the under body compartments are not high enough for either the batteries or a modern propane tank, so the guys had to make a double hinge setup. This means the compartment doors hinge on a piece of 2 1/2" channel, which then hinges on the new support beam. I can open the compartment for access, or drop the door on the second hinge to pull batteries out, re-fill propane etc.
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Could you post some pictures of your compartment door arrangement? Assuming I remove my black water tank I was considering adding a battery drawer similar to how the 310s and 345s are configured.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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10-23-2015, 06:24 PM
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#359
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
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Another day....another shop now working on Bella
The local shop removed the wheels/drums etc and flushed and pressure tested the brakes. I get a call to from them to say they had road tested and everything was OK. I am still waiting for the suspensions and steering parts to arrive so decided to pick Bella up and go check for myself.
Gorgeous day for a trip to the beach, and brakes felt great.
Hardly a marathon road test as the beach is 800yds from our house....just long enough for the brake warning light to come back on, and for all response to brake pedal to evaporate.
I managed to limp to a different shop, one that works on ambulances and public service vehicles. They couldn't even get the cover off the MC as it was under vacuum, and when they final got the cover off the MC was empty, so I guess the first shop have forgotten to tighten something and Bella has lost all her new brake fluid. I left Bella with them; hopefully they will do a better job than the first place.
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10-23-2015, 06:35 PM
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#360
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Airstream Driver
1994 30' Excella
1992 35' Airstream 350
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,224
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no way
__________________
1994 30' Excella Front Kitchen Trailer
1990 25' Excella Travel trailer
1992 350LE Classic Touring Coach
AIR #13
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