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Old 10-03-2015, 09:50 AM   #321
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1974 20' Argosy 20
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I can understand that thought process!

My friend closes on his house Wednesday afternoon and he and I (I promised to help) will likely spend a month or two reworking a bunch of things that really need repairs, etc. With that in mind I'll be talking with him Wednesday evening or Thursday to get a feel for what might be happening.

In the mean time I'll start repairing the smaller cracks on the valance to get a feel for how well those repairs are going to go. For me to even work on repairing the cracks I'm going to have to come up with something to hold it in he correct shape so that should help a little once work on a mold starts.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:16 AM   #322
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Martin, while you're taking those measurements would you mind looking at the back side of your front bumper to see if there is a support frame similar to the one in the attached picture?

Attachment 249726

I noticed that your front bumper has two mounting bolts on the face of the bar when looking at the front of the bumper. Mine doesn't have those mounting points. Instead mine has the support shown in the picture and the bumper was mounted from the top in two places and two places on the bottom along with the ones at each side.

I'm thinking of reworking the front mount to use front bolts like yours has.

Thanks,

Brad
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:39 AM   #323
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1986 34.5' Airstream 345
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Amazing rebuild Martin!

Hi Martin,

Just came across this thread and pretty much went through it all. I've met Brad as I have bought some parts off his parted out 345. Great guy and very knowledgeable and helpful as with many others here on the forum.

Keep up the amazing work and look forward to seeing Belle completed!

I have an 86 345 Classic MH that is polished and now - 3 years later ... just started to do the interior updating. Have you considered "polishing" Bella instead of painting? I've seen a couple of Argosy polished - but the end cap may be made of a different metal that could be polished???


Sam
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:24 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by STstudios View Post
Hi Martin,

Just came across this thread and pretty much went through it all. I've met Brad as I have bought some parts off his parted out 345. Great guy and very knowledgeable and helpful as with many others here on the forum.

Keep up the amazing work and look forward to seeing Belle completed!

I have an 86 345 Classic MH that is polished and now - 3 years later ... just started to do the interior updating. Have you considered "polishing" Bella instead of painting? I've seen a couple of Argosy polished - but the end cap may be made of a different metal that could be polished???


Sam
Hi Sam

When we started (long before we ended up bringing Bella to NE) I generated a Pinterest page of 'ideas'. It was using that that we got the initial estimate from Hofarc, and then the couple of restorers in Florida. I then gave the guys at Airstream NE a short (3-4 page) document of those ideas and over the first 2-3 weeks of work in their shop it expanded to about 7 pages.

Although all the themes still stand, I don't think one aspect is exactly the same as the original 'idea'.

One of those ideas was polishing; that turned from polishing, to a chrome paint finish (I liked the idea of washing to get the shine back!), to a single color metallic, until one day DW suddenly said....I don't want to change the color too much, its what makes an Argosy, an Argosy. It is about the only time she has given any preference about anything on Bella; so that's what we are having.....at least for the moment!
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Old 10-06-2015, 07:31 AM   #325
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in the attached picture?
That's odd my attachment didn't show up. Let's try this one.

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Old 10-06-2015, 10:06 AM   #326
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I will check tonight Brad....I don't remember seeing it. I believe mine has four extensions (two front/two side) each of which has a corner bracket through which the mounting bolt goes.
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Old 10-07-2015, 05:01 AM   #327
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Martin,

I'm going to scrap that piece of sheet metal at the front. It's less than 1/8" thick and was held to the frame with four small sheet metal screws that were sheared off at sometime in the past. I'll just drill two holes in the front of the bumper where the ears are and be done with it.

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 10-07-2015, 05:48 AM   #328
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Mine definitely just has the 4 extensions Brad; each has a 'end plate' (approx 5" long) but with the mounting holes just on one side.
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Old 10-07-2015, 05:59 AM   #329
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That makes the most sense to me. I really think my Argosy is one of the first ones produced and Airstream was "learning" how to do some things. My guess is they had the bumper made and then found that the front extensions didn't mate to the front of the bumper so they made the sheet metal support to overcome the problem.

I plan on bolting the bumper to the Argosy using the side extensions to locate it properly and then add whatever is needed to get the front extensions to contact the front part of the bumper. After that I'll drill a couple of holes and be done with it. Much simpler!

Thanks for the info!

Brad
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:28 AM   #330
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I doubt it is relevant but for some reason the bolts in the front extensions are 3/8" but the bolts at the sides are 1/2", both sizes are coach-bolts (I replaced with stainless)
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:39 AM   #331
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I'll have to see what hole sizes are on mine. Regardless if the fronts are 3/8" I'll probably just drill them to 1/2" so everything looks the same. I had planned on replacing with stainless as well.

Before any of that happens I'm going to paint all of the chassis components at the front and inside the engine compartment before I start putting anything back on. I'm trying to do it right the "first time"
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:49 PM   #332
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I am starting to develop a love/hate relationship with Bella

To update the brakes situation; I think the last post was that I found a (very) local shop that would look at the brakes. I have waited for a couple of weeks from them to have an open slot, I drive Bella over, brake light is still on. I park 'it' up, go to work.I get a call from the shop....mechanic: whats the problem? me: the brake warning light is on, mechanic: no its not, me; well it was this morning and has been each time I checked over the last few weeks, mechanic; well it isn't now.

So i call in this evening, guess what no warning light, I try and do emergency stops in their lot to get it to come back - nothing. I drive home (300yds) pull into the drive, reverse into the space where we park, I am going less than walking speed so gently apply the brakes.....frigging light comes on!
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Old 10-07-2015, 03:58 PM   #333
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I am starting to develop a love/hate relationship with Bella

To update the brakes situation; I think the last post was that I found a (very) local shop that would look at the brakes. I have waited for a couple of weeks from them to have an open slot, I drive Bella over, brake light is still on. I park 'it' up, go to work.I get a call from the shop....mechanic: whats the problem? me: the brake warning light is on, mechanic: no its not, me; well it was this morning and has been each time I checked over the last few weeks, mechanic; well it isn't now.

So i call in this evening, guess what no warning light, I try and do emergency stops in their lot to get it to come back - nothing. I drive home (300yds) pull into the drive, reverse into the space where we park, I am going less than walking speed so gently apply the brakes.....frigging light comes on!
Martin,
Sorry, hindsight, but I would have told them to PLEASE go through the brake system. Light or no light, I think considering the age and the unknown, its time for someone to take all the wheels and drums off and check everything, unless you already had all that work done and are only trying to chase down that light issue.
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:06 PM   #334
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I went a little further than that Peter.

Airstream NE is supposed to have gone through brakes/steering/suspensions and serviced everything (wheels/drums off etc). But now I have asked the local shop to not 'mess about', remove and check everything; replace where appropriate, and upgrade if there is something better (new suspension, complete Henderson Supersteer setup, disc brakes at the back).

I had been trying to get 'running repairs' done to allow us to use for the last few weekends of the season, but have now decided to just pull the trigger on being ready for next season.
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:41 PM   #335
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I went a little further than that Peter.

Airstream NE is supposed to have gone through brakes/steering/suspensions and serviced everything (wheels/drums off etc). But now I have asked the local shop to not 'mess about', remove and check everything; replace where appropriate, and upgrade if there is something better (new suspension, complete Henderson Supersteer setup, disc brakes at the back).

I had been trying to get 'running repairs' done to allow us to use for the last few weekends of the season, but have now decided to just pull the trigger on being ready for next season.
I should have figured as thorough as you are with everything...
Now you may understand why I have an Airstream trailer and an Airstream Motorhome. The trailer is now ready to go at anytime and I can take the luxury of taking my time to do things right on the Motorhome.
And BTW, camping seasons starts now down here in the south...Yeah!
Remember that when you come this way, Summer is not always the most pleasurable time of the year for us.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:26 AM   #336
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How is the brake light activated, mechanically? I understand "when" it might happen but what happens in the mechanics that triggers the switch to the light?


Mike
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:08 AM   #337
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As far as I can tell (and this is coming from someone that is having to get someone else to fix it!). There is an expected pressure difference between front and rear circuits (determined by a couple of spring loaded valves that let flow to front (via the main metering valve), and to rear). The switch sits in a chamber between the two circuits and looks for pressure changes associated with the two circuits being in balance (just with different pressures being applied).



However if the switch is activated it could be electrical (wiring or switch), the combination valve itself (i.e. the springs not opening at the appropriate time), or a leak on either circuit (so they aren't reaching pressure and causing a differential).

It is pretty crude. I am told that the rating of the metering valve spring matched to the type of brakes installed - disc front/drum rear what more pressure going to the front vs disc all around want less pressure to the front. Which means buying the correct replacement combination valve appears to be a little bit hit and miss.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:29 AM   #338
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Boy, from the looks of that schematic and considerring that there is mechanical/hydraulic/electrical components all involved in the activation of the brake light switch, and its a 35+ year old vehicle, I think I would be tempted to just deactivate the light and call it done. Doesnt seem that the brake light is really telling you anything more than what you would feel in the pedal. However I realize with the amount of time, money, planning, etc, that youve put into Bella that you want EVERYTHING to work as designed.

Do your brakes feel capable at this point? Kind of a hard question to answer unless you have another unit to compare it to. It took a good deal of work getting mine to a point where I feel very confident in them but Ive never driven a vehicle of that size before so getting them "right" is kind of subjective. It seems to me that the p30 series brake design in general is a challenge to deal with. I had two large truck mechanics tell me that my brakes were working as designed and I just needed to get use to them.....NOT.. New pads, flex lines, master cylinder, multiple bleedings, complete fluid flush and finally adjustment to the pedal connecting rod later.......NOW they feel like they will stop the vehicle with confidence.

Keep the faith , the Airstream Gods owe you one (or 10) at this point, with all the love youve put into Bella.


Mike
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:04 AM   #339
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All good points but here is my concern Mike.

The brakes aren't worse when the light comes on but aren't good anyway. Like you, the guys at Airstream said the brakes are working to spec (and I had them run the hydro-boost test in the Light Truck Manual), and I just needed to get used to it. But (and this is now totally theoretical) the switch is telling me there is a pressure differential (which could be proportioning valve or leak/air in one system) then it could explain the long pedal travel. The MC is designed with two chambers so if there is a issue (even a split hose) on one circuit, minimal pressure is generated on that circuit, yet the other circuit works. I am guessing one possible cause of my 'long pedal' is actually a problem that the warning light is sometimes picking up. Especially as the light resets when it is pushed back ie is reset by gaining pressure again.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:11 AM   #340
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In my opinion the brakes on these coaches are problematic at best. On the 310 that I used to have when I first got it I took it to a large truck shop to have the master cylinder replaced along with hoses and a front brake job.

After a week or so they called to say it was ready so I picked it up, drove out of their lot and almost couldn't stop coming to the first stop sign I came to as the pedal went to the floor

Had to turn around and take it back and they ended up keeping for a month trying to get the brakes to work. In the end after they replaced all the components they then had to pressure bleed the brake system. Once they did that the brakes were "ok". Not great but ok.

I honestly can't believe that when these vehicles were new the brakes were as iffy as they are. Martin, If I were you I'd keep after them until you get a pedal feel that seems right.

Good luck!

Brad
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