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Old 01-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #1
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1977 Argosy 28
1977 28' Argosy 28
Lyngby , Denmark
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Introducing my 1977 Argosy 28'. Please join in!

Hi there, all you good folks of this friendly forum !
My name is
Lars. I'm from Denmark.

I made my 'formal introduction' here:
CLICK

I'm setting up this thread, hoping that all you
'been there, done that'-folks will chip in and help me along.

I've searched and read the forum to a point where my eyes
felt like popping out their sockets, so hopefully
I've got the mere basics of Argosy ownership.

I will post all my questions in this thread
as the thought of posting them in 32 different
sub-forums would make my head spin.

Better re-post some pics, so you know what we're talking about here




























1977 28 feet Argosy

At some point in the past the MH has been refurbished
and a few interior things was removed and others added

..The former owner toured USA in it last year, going from
Illinois down to Florida and over to New Mexico.
..before and during the trip they replaced the fridge
cooler unit, the starter, the water-pump and brakes were
overhauled.
..as part of my deal with the former owner the MH was taken
to a garage in New Mexico to be thoroughly checked
and fixed on his expenses (!)
The garage has now fixed a few things , and the radiator
has been removed..recored..and put back in.

Part of the deal was that I had to fix myself:
..dash air-con
..Onan generator

Thing I'm planning to do when I get over there early summer:
..fix the instrument panel
..extra sound insulation inside dog-house
..'exterior' air-intake for carb
..replace carb (maybe)
..headers (?)
..solar panels
..'bigger' , better batteries ( maybe Odyssey )
..LED lights inside and outside
..fire extinguishers
..check / replace airbags (?)

Will check/replace all fluids, check wiring system/fuse box,
wheel bearings and u-joints.

Redo the interior in 'New Mexico style' with lots
of warn colors on 'sofa', seats, curtains etc.
Remove bunk-beds and build a "work-shop"/"office" table
so I have a place to fix MH things and work on parts
for my Bonneville Land Speed bike.


If I win the lottery:
GearVendor overdrive
Big awning

How's that for a plan ?
What do I forget here ?

I know it's quite impossible to find
(Hey ; if you don't try, you can be sure nothing happens)
but I'm looking for an original set of chairs/folding table.
Something like this, for instance



Yep: I want to get it back to the seventies style.
One thing I plan on doing is to cover the "walls"
between the 'compartments' with this wonderful
original seventies wall-paper I have.
Did a test on the doors on my mother-of-all-cheapness
work-shop kitchen.

I've never worked with wall-paper before, but it went quite well



..glued it on wrapping it around the edges



..and gave it two coats of clear-coat



I love it !
it's not to everybody's taste, but there's an explanation for that:
I don't make this for everybody...I make it for my self

.-)

Oh yeah; and finding an original awning would be great.
There's always hope....or maybe not.

I should mention that I flew over, all the way from Denmark,
just before Christmas to check it out.
Bummer.
Went up to Taos, from Santa Fe where I stayed with a friend,
while they still worked on the radiator at the garage.
Had little time to check it, as we wanted to head back to Santa Fe
early because of the snow.
Then the snow came BIG time and I never got a chance to return to the garage.
Never mind: I had a GOOD time in Santa Fe.
So it's still up there at the garage:



...and will be driven down to Santa Fe to be stored
when the roads clear up ( it's quite horrific right now )


Question time:

1..read about the dash-board here,
and understand that replacements are out of the question
but never quite got if they were used in other vehicles ?
( hoping to find a second hand one)

2..read about someone here who had installed
an "outside" carb air-intake. ( Can't seam to find it again )
which to me make a lot of sense , understanding that
a lot of heat accumulates up that dog-house.
Anyone else done that ? ...did it make a difference ?

3..need to install a 'double' motorcycle platform at the rear of the MH.
One bike will be my INDIAN weighing less than 300 pounds
and another will be a small, even lighter, bike
I intend to buy, as a round-about bike.
Any recommendations ?

4..need a work-shop manual for the 454 engine.
Being unfamiliar with big V-8's:
What am I looking for exactly ?
I take it there are several sub-types of 454's ?!
Which 'brand' of manual do you recommend,
Clymer, Haynes, Clinton ...?
Did GM make one ?....any good ?

5..I read about the problems with the original exhaust manifolds.
Where will I find a set of headers?
Around how much are they ?
Do you heat-wrap them as a precaution to transfer
the heat away from the engine compartment/dog-house ?

6..anyone have a simple idea about how to keep
the moisture out while storing the MH ?
Need to keep it simple as I'll have to ask my friend in Santa Fe
to do it for me.


Any, and all, assistance is highly appreciated.

THANK YOU !

Happy New Year !
Lars
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:08 AM   #2
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Lars.

I would suggest that the first issues that you should address, is waterproofing the coach.

Check all the window gaskets, the entrance door gaskets as well as the storage compartment gaskets.

Especially check out the sewer vent pipe cover gaskets, as they only last 2 to 3 years.

Andy
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #3
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1972 27' Overlander
Venice , Florida
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Lars, I can't help you with your questions but I just wanted to jump in and say what a great vehicle you have. Thanks for a very informative post.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:42 AM   #4
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1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
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Hi Lars, Welcome to the forum. I have a 82 Airstream 280 turbo diesel. It's a few years newer than your Argosy but there are many similarities. I can't speak too much about your engine questions but I've spent a lot of time on the chassis stuff and will be happy to help where I can.

My first suggestion before you get here is get the GM factory manuals, they are much better than the aftermarket books.

When you get over here and start turning wrenches there will be lots of help.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:38 AM   #5
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1975 Argosy 24
West Linn , Oregon
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Lars, you have a great dream! I hope you succeed in every aspect.

About the motorhome. Most parts were sourced from common, widely used vendors, so replacement of individual electrical, motor and chassis parts will be fairly easy to find if needed. Some parts, such as plastic interior pieces may be almost impossible to find, but can be duplicated in fiberglass or wood if needed. As you know, the shell is aluminum (except for the steel roof endcaps), and can be repaired or modified easily.

The 454 was used from 1970 through the 1990's. There was a high performance variation that was used in sports cars, and somewhere in the 90's it got fuel injection and then was bored to 502. The standard truck version you have was a good all around engine, though it will probably get about 10 miles per gallon of fuel on the road (american gallon = 3.8 liters). It's actually quite well designed for the purpose. A well tuned carburetor and electronic ignition distributor helps a bit. Beware, there are a lot of inexpensive rebuilt carburetors available for that engine that are not tuned well, so if you need to replace the original, it might be worth having a speciality company rebuild the original. Tuning the carburetor yourself may be difficult if it is an original Rochestor (they have a complex low speed fueling circuit, but get slightly better part throttle mileage when working correctly), but a Holley is good too, and the motor will be well into the lower mid range to pull the chassis around even on the flat highway., so better mileage at idle is probably not going to help much. Rebuild kits for both Rochestor and Holley are still available and relatively easy to install if the throttle bushings are not worn out. One thing you should be aware of, American gasoline is much more corrosive than it used to be 30 years ago, and some problems with older vehicles can sometimes be fixed with replacement rubber fuel lines, fuel filters and fuel pumps, along with a carb rebuild kit to stop the rubber seals from melting and softening from the new fuel. A large secondary fuel filter is an easy alternative to pulling the gas tank and cleaning up whatever is floating around in it after 30 years.

Aftermarket fuel injection can help some more, but most of those cost around $2K and up, and $2K will buy a lot of gas. If the engine has even compression on all cylinders it will probably last many more years with minor tuneups. Another thing that has changed over the last 30 years is the additive chemicals in oil. Newer vehicles have roller camshaft lifters and expensive, easy to damage electronic sensor emission systems, and your 454 does not. If you use standard replacement oil, the high pressure additives have been drastically lowered over the years (sulfur, etc) and will not be enough for the camshaft, and the lobes will start to wear heavily over 10K miles or so. Most companies market oil for "high mileage" engines, but really it has the higher levels of additives for older engines, so pretty much any 10-30 motor oil "High Mileage" should work fine and the price is good. The transmission will be a 3 speed automatic with 1:1 final. They are usually durable unless heavily abused, replacements run around $2K or so. It is possible to upgrade the transmission and engine for more power and better fuel economy for a price, but what you have is durable and relatively inexpensive to replace or repair if needed.

For "outside air intake", we sometimes call that a "cold air intake". It can be as simple as a length of flexible clothes dryer hose that routes from the high air pressure area near the front bumper into the side of the air cleaner on the top of the engine. It generally makes a small but noticeable difference when the outside temperature is over 80F.

I'll try and catch up with you on your way through Oregon and look at your beautiful bikes, we have a some very nice roads to ride, river canyons and mountains. I'm sure I'd be a little slower than you on my old Honda thumper. :-)

Questions welcome.

Sean & Sharon Harbour
West Linn, Oregon
1975 24' Airstream Argosy
1991 Chevrolet K5 Blazer (soon to be turbo diesel)
1984 Honda XL600R
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:38 AM   #6
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1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Jamestown , Kentucky
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Welcome Lars, gosh, Sean gave you some great advice and he is spot on.

I think that the 1st and to me, the most important thing to do would be to have a Banks header, exhaust, intake ( kit ) installed. Maybe one is On already ? I missed it if it is.

This gives you a cooler engine, dog house area. Longer lasting electronics and more power, performance By there claims.
This also takes care of your fresh air intake. as Part of the kit
I have the G.V. over-under and banks kit. + cruise. PO.
Other than cruise control, and general maintenance. Plugs, electronic High performance distributor mentioned above.
I would have the GV and Banks kit Installed 1st.
along with the cruise control, You will cruise in ease and comfort with a smoother, quieter ride down the Highway.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:44 AM   #7
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1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Speedway , Indiana
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 421
Welcome Lars! What a great looking coach. There is nothing better than staying in an Airstream at any racing/biking/boating/whatever thing.
On the question of the big awning, you should be able to get a new one through ZipDee. They made all of them installed on our classic style coaches. There may even be a used one to be found on the internet. The ones on our '86 345 are all original, fabric and all. The fabric just needs to be re-waterproofed from time to time.
Banks Headers are the way to go. They have the full exhaust system with one big outlet on the street side.
What is wrong with the dash? All the instruments are stock Chevy truck/van stuff.
Keep us posted with your progress.
Rob
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:39 AM   #8
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1977 Argosy 28
1977 28' Argosy 28
Lyngby , Denmark
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Lars.

I would suggest that the first issues that you should address, is waterproofing the coach.

Check all the window gaskets, the entrance door gaskets as well as the storage compartment gaskets.

Especially check out the sewer vent pipe cover gaskets, as they only last 2 to 3 years.

Andy
Thank you Andy.
Will do !
The former owner said there were no leaks and
right now I can't do anything as the MH is in Santa Fe NM,
exactly 5174.8 miles away from me here in Copenhagen.
Desperately looking for a covered storage space in Santa Fe,
just in case.
A few month in open storage with water leaking in could
wreck havoc to the interior


Quote:
Originally Posted by DougZ View Post
Lars, I can't help you with your questions but I just wanted to jump in and say what a great vehicle you have. Thanks for a very informative post.
Thank you !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartstream View Post
Hi Lars, Welcome to the forum. I have a 82 Airstream 280 turbo diesel. It's a few years newer than your Argosy but there are many similarities. I can't speak too much about your engine questions but I've spent a lot of time on the chassis stuff and will be happy to help where I can.
Thanks Dan !

Quote:
My first suggestion before you get here is get the GM factory manuals, they are much better than the aftermarket books.
I'd love to get them but I'm uncertain exactly what I'm looking for.
Can you advise ? You know the exact title(s) ?
Is this it ? : CLICK

Quote:
When you get over here and start turning wrenches there will be lots of help.
Great !
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:15 PM   #9
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1977 Argosy 28
1977 28' Argosy 28
Lyngby , Denmark
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharbours View Post
Lars, you have a great dream! I hope you succeed in every aspect.
Thank you very much !

Quote:
About the motorhome. Most parts were sourced from common, widely used vendors, so replacement of individual electrical, motor and chassis parts will be fairly easy to find if needed. Some parts, such as plastic interior pieces may be almost impossible to find, but can be duplicated in fiberglass or wood if needed.
OK, like the dashboard...right ?

Quote:
As you know, the shell is aluminum (except for the steel roof endcaps), and can be repaired or modified easily.The 454 was used from 1970 through the 1990's. There was a high performance variation that was used in sports cars, and somewhere in the 90's it got fuel injection and then was bored to 502. The standard truck version you have was a good all around engine, though it will probably get about 10 miles per gallon of fuel on the road (american gallon = 3.8 liters). It's actually quite well designed for the purpose. A well tuned carburetor and electronic ignition distributor helps a bit. Beware, there are a lot of inexpensive rebuilt carburetors available for that engine that are not tuned well, so if you need to replace the original, it might be worth having a speciality company rebuild the original. Tuning the carburetor yourself may be difficult if it is an original Rochestor (they have a complex low speed fueling circuit, but get slightly better part throttle mileage when working correctly)
Mmmm: I think I'll have a go at rebuilding and tuning myself.
I'm quite fond of messing with carbs.

Here's the before/after pics of the 4-carb set-up
for my 1976 Honda GL1000, I rebuild, modified and tuned in





and here's the 6 (!) -carb set-up for my 1979 6 cylinder Honda
CBX1000 Supersport I rebuild ( loooooots of parts ),
tuned in and synch'ed






Quote:
but a Holley is good too, and the motor will be well into the lower mid range to pull the chassis around even on the flat highway., so better mileage at idle is probably not going to help much. Rebuild kits for both Rochestor and Holley are still available and relatively easy to install if the throttle bushings are not worn out.
Got'ya. I take it we're talking about the butterfly shaft bushings ?
I did once rebuild a set of 3 SU carbs for my (then) Jaguar E-type.
The bushings came as part of the rebuild set.
Came undersized and had to be reamed for perfect fit.

Quote:
One thing you should be aware of, American gasoline is much more corrosive than it used to be 30 years ago, and some problems with older vehicles can sometimes be fixed with replacement rubber fuel lines, fuel filters and fuel pumps, along with a carb rebuild kit to stop the rubber seals from melting and softening from the new fuel. A large secondary fuel filter is an easy alternative to pulling the gas tank and cleaning up whatever is floating around in it after 30 years.
Yeah, I've read about those issues on the old-motorcycles forums I frequent.
Guess I better replace all hoses too, right ?

Quote:
Aftermarket fuel injection can help some more, but most of those cost around $2K and up, and $2K will buy a lot of gas. If the engine has even compression on all cylinders it will probably last many more years with minor tuneups. Another thing that has changed over the last 30 years is the additive chemicals in oil. Newer vehicles have roller camshaft lifters and expensive, easy to damage electronic sensor emission systems, and your 454 does not. If you use standard replacement oil, the high pressure additives have been drastically lowered over the years (sulfur, etc) and will not be enough for the camshaft, and the lobes will start to wear heavily over 10K miles or so. Most companies market oil for "high mileage" engines, but really it has the higher levels of additives for older engines, so pretty much any 10-30 motor oil "High Mileage" should work fine and the price is good.
I'm somewhat familiar with those issues too, relating to my 1954 BSA
motorcycle. Over here its hard to get they proper oil for them.
Some resort to adding "Engine Assembly Lube" to the oil as
it has a very high content of the 'missing' stuff old oils used to
have ( was it zinc or....?).
Curiously my 70 years old INDIAN motorcycle do have rollers
so there is no problem of worn down cam-lobes



Quote:
The transmission will be a 3 speed automatic with 1:1 final. They are usually durable unless heavily abused, replacements run around $2K or so. It is possible to upgrade the transmission and engine for more power and better fuel economy for a price, but what you have is durable and relatively inexpensive to replace or repair if needed.

For "outside air intake", we sometimes call that a "cold air intake". It can be as simple as a length of flexible clothes dryer hose that routes from the high air pressure area near the front bumper into the side of the air cleaner on the top of the engine. It generally makes a small but noticeable difference when the outside temperature is over 80F.

I'll try and catch up with you on your way through Oregon and look at your beautiful bikes, we have a some very nice roads to ride, river canyons and mountains. I'm sure I'd be a little slower than you on my old Honda thumper. :-)
Thank you for a very informative post !

BTW: I notice that your "old Honda thumper" is a XL Honda.
I have one of them too. Mine's a 500

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Old 01-03-2011, 12:33 PM   #10
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1977 Argosy 28
1977 28' Argosy 28
Lyngby , Denmark
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Haggard View Post
Welcome Lars
Thank you !

Quote:
gosh, Sean gave you some great advice
Certainly did !


Quote:
and he is spot on.

I think that the 1st and to me, the most important thing to do would be to have a Banks header, exhaust, intake ( kit ) installed. Maybe one is On already ? I missed it if it is.
I really don't know, but I doubt it.
Where could I buy such a contaption ?
...and how much are they ?

Quote:
This gives you a cooler engine, dog house area. Longer lasting electronics and more power, performance By there claims.
This also takes care of your fresh air intake. as Part of the kit
I have the G.V. over-under and banks kit. + cruise. PO.
Other than cruise control, and general maintenance. Plugs, electronic High performance distributor mentioned above.
I would have the GV and Banks kit Installed 1st.
along with the cruise control, You will cruise in ease and comfort with a smoother, quieter ride down the Highway.
"Cruise in ease and comford" sound just fine to me !
.-)

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robfike View Post
Welcome Lars!
What a great looking coach.
Thanks Rob!

Quote:
There is nothing better than staying in an Airstream at any racing/biking/boating/whatever thing.
I can't wait. Last year at SpeedWeek I slept in a sleeping bag
in the back of a rental van.

Quote:
On the question of the big awning, you should be able to get a new one through ZipDee. They made all of them installed on our classic style coaches. There may even be a used one to be found on the internet. The ones on our '86 345 are all original, fabric and all. The fabric just needs to be re-waterproofed from time to time.
Thanks. I'll look into that, right away.
Quote:
Banks Headers are the way to go. They have the full exhaust system with one big outlet on the street side.
OK !
Quote:
What is wrong with the dash?
Nothing serious really, except it's got a crack and a
funny looking wrinkle



...but worst of all:
some clown "painted" it with what looks like house facade paint
using either a broom or a dead cat to apply the paint.
You can't see it on the pic, but it looks positively horrific.
Just sort of spoils the pleasure of sitting behind the wheel.
The problem is that I wouldn't know how to strip
the paint, using a paint-stripper, without 'melting' into the dash plastic.
I guess I'll try to fix it, and coat it with this rubber-like 'paint'
that gives a 'bumpy/'knobby' surface ( don't know what you call it your side of the pond ) and then spray it matt-black.

Quote:
Keep us posted with your progress.
Rob
Will do.....to the tune of a thousand questions.

Thanks all !
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:58 PM   #11
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1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Thank you Andy.
Will do

Thanks Dan !

I'd love to get them but I'm uncertain exactly what I'm looking for.
Can you advise ? You know the exact title(s) ?
Is this it ? : CLICK


Great !
That manual would be a good start. GM has many individual manuals for trans, carbs, electrical, etc. That one should cover series 10 through 30 trucks. You may later add info fot the air suspention and other mods but start with the base manual. You can also get a manual for the coach if you do a search on this site.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:51 AM   #12
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1975 Argosy 24
West Linn , Oregon
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The dash looks like an ABS plastic or similar molded item. Repair would involve finding a paint stripping method that won't melt the plastic, like you mentioned, then using a heat gun to soften and remold the warped plastic back to an acceptable shape, and finally using a plastic welding gun to fix the crack. I've used strips of abs plastic cut from black ABS plumbing pipe and a large soldering iron to do the same on motorcycle fairings, and the result was actually pretty good, but you have to make sure it's the same type of plastic.

As an option, I'd call a few of the larger RV wrecking yards on the west coast ((Colaws?) Anybody have a list?) and have them put out the word that you are looking for a dashboard for a mid 70's Argosy motorhome. Might be a lot less labor and they may be reasonable on the price. In the meantime, pretty much any upholstery shop could whip up a nice carpeted cover for the dash.

I don't think you'll have any problems rebuilding the carb, whichever it is, if you have the tools. Their are some tricks for getting the Rochester fixed up, the one I remember in particular is applying a thick coating of epoxy glue to the middle of the underside of the body to stop porosity leaks of fuel. You'll know what I mean when you take a look at it. Let me know what you've got, and I'll see if I have a manual for it. The main thing about the Rochesters was they were specifically tuned for the application using some hard to find needles and jets with 3 stages of needle taper in the low speed jets. The replacements usually have a generic 2 stage taper, and the 4 barrel opening rate can be way off, causing mid throttle tip-in to be really flat. Really, really flat. Your luck may vary, but it's quite possible someone already tossed the factory carb and put on a generic replacement. As an option, the Edelbrock company bought the rights to the Rochester Quadrajet, and made a very good improved replacement for it for years, but I think it has been discontinued. They can still be found used on ebay, etc, for good prices. Here's a link to a guy that has some tips on rebuilding, tuning, etc. that line up with what I remember being good information for the Rochester quadrajet carb.

My Quadrajet Tips

P.S. I like your XL500! I'm pretty happy with my 600, though I am very tempted by the newer KTM 690 Enduro (no vibration 70 HP!). I may have to upgrade to a used one in a few years...
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:54 PM   #13
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1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton , Oregon
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Don't bother with colaws, tried them recently and was told they have only 1980 and newer parts. Lars have you seen my thread on the $120 argosy? Ive been through much of what your asking about
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:55 PM   #14
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1965 30' Sovereign
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Also not sure when your passing through but your more than welcome to stop by and see our 75 argosy Moho, I can also put you in touch with a 30 year gm motorhome mechanic! T
He's invaluable
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