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Old 10-11-2012, 07:04 AM   #29
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Well now I have issues with two other circuits. I think I have mice in my unit. I saw some droppings while working on the AC/Fan/TV antenna but chalked it off to the unit being 35 years old. Everything was working 2 days ago and I have not done anything since then except pull out one walkway light in the rear of the coach.

I was supposed to leave tomorrow for Florida but without a water pump, that isn't happening. Argghhh!
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #30
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Well now I have issues with two other circuits. I think I have mice in my unit. I saw some droppings while working on the AC/Fan/TV antenna but chalked it off to the unit being 35 years old. Everything was working 2 days ago and I have not done anything since then except pull out one walkway light in the rear of the coach.

I was supposed to leave tomorrow for Florida but without a water pump, that isn't happening. Argghhh!
As a quick and dirty work around you can always run a wire from the fuse panel, across the floor to the water pump. I know you have experience with this method

Not a preferred approach but better than the alternative.

I'm assuming you've checked the fuses and they are good. One thing I noticed on our 310 with the original univolt fuse panel was the connectors that hold the (glass) fuses are riveted to the board and can be problematic. Corrosion on those connectors can be a bad thing.

On the 310 I ended up replacing the fuse board with the ATC style of fuse board and am glad I did. I'll be doing the same thing on the Argosy when I replace the univolt this winter.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by bkahler View Post

I'm assuming you've checked the fuses and they are good. One thing I noticed on our 310 with the original univolt fuse panel was the connectors that hold the (glass) fuses are riveted to the board and can be problematic. Corrosion on those connectors can be a bad thing.
Yes. I have a strong 12-13v on either side of all 5 fuses/circuits on my 12v panel. When I run a separate wire to the mid-coach ceiling light, I can operate the rear lights and the dinette light. The wiring issue is forward of the center vent just like the purple wire! The only problem this time is my water pump and radio do not come back on when using the patch. I am not sure if that is because of the location of my connection or they are on a separate circuit.

I may be back to tearing down the center ceiling panel!

I just wish that I mapped out the circuits when everything was working! Dang!
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:37 AM   #32
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Yes. I have a strong 12-13v on either side of all 5 fuses/circuits on my 12v panel. When I run a separate wire to the mid-coach ceiling light, I can operate the rear lights and the dinette light. The wiring issue is forward of the center vent just like the purple wire! The only problem this time is my water pump and radio do not come back on when using the patch. I am not sure if that is because of the location of my connection or they are on a separate circuit.

I may be back to tearing down the center ceiling panel!

I just wish that I mapped out the circuits when everything was working! Dang!
It sure would be nice to have a service manual wouldn't it

Before you start thinking about pulling down that center panel there are a lot of troubleshooting steps that can be done. I'm assuming your goal at the moment is to get the pump working so you can take it to Florida for its paint job. If that's the case run jumper wires where ever you have to just to get you there. With luck you'll have the service manual in hand by the time the paint job is done.

Once you get the Argosy back I'm more than willing to drive over from Richmond for a weekend to give you a hand in really digging into the wiring to see if we can resolve your problems.

Other than factory screws and rivets are there any other fasteners screwed into the walls or ceiling (both interior and exterior)?

Brad
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #33
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Today has been very destructive and successful all at the same time.
  1. I did pull down the center ceiling panel and found rodent droppings.
  2. I did find the other end main cable housing as it enters the ceiling and the four main circuit wires.
  3. I did NOT have continuity on my yellow and purple wires back to the 12v panel. This troubled me since that would mean the short is in the main cable run.
  4. I started looking back at the 12v panel and noticed that the wires exited into the right front wheel well.
  5. The wires in the wheel well are coated with a black undercoating and go into a foam rubber insert.
  6. As I was identifying the wires, the PURPLE wire pulls out into my hand!
  7. I pulled back the foam rubber insert and found a HUGE rodent nest!
  8. It appears that the rodent(s) are entering through the right wheel well and following the cable run up to the ceiling.
Now I just need to clean out the mess, check my wiring for continuity and see if that fixes my issues. (Then I have this small problem/task of putting back up the ceiling panel that I might have pulled down for no reason!)



I have my camera with me and I have been taking pictures. I will post them later.


FYI - If you decide to pull down your ceiling panel, remove the front and rear caps FIRST. The rear cap involves removing the bathroom wall.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:53 AM   #34
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Question: Is there a certain type of spray foam I should use to fill the void? Do they make a flexible expanding foam?
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:57 PM   #35
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Turns out there are FOUR wires broken there (purple, yellow, brown, and a misc wire) and a severely worn wire. I am headed to NAPA for some wire and connectors to repair the wiring. This ends up being 3 of my 4 12v circuits! Yikes!

There is a C-channel bar there in the wheel well. All of them appear to be worn/broken where the C-channel sticks up. It must have been a combination of the rodents and the wear of the wires siting on the C-channel. Of course there could have also been some arching due to a short.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #36
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Question: Is there a certain type of spray foam I should use to fill the void? Do they make a flexible expanding foam?
I don't know how well expanding foam keeps out rodents. I would almost consider using one of the Vulkem products. I saw no signs on the 345 that I dismantled of rodents being interested in that stuff

Hopefully someone will come back with a better answer.

Good job of tracking down your problem and troubleshooting. I was hoping you wouldn't take your ceiling down except as a last resort. I learned on that 345 that I do NOT want to mess with the ceiling panel or end caps unless I absolutely have too

Brad
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:34 PM   #37
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Turns out there are FOUR wires broken there (purple, yellow, brown, and a misc wire) and a severely worn wire. I am headed to NAPA for some wire and connectors to repair the wiring. This ends up being 3 of my 4 12v circuits! Yikes!

There is a C-channel bar there in the wheel well. All of them appear to be worn/broken where the C-channel sticks up. It must have been a combination of the rodents and the wear of the wires siting on the C-channel. Of course there could have also been some arching due to a short.
Wow, quite a wiring nightmare. Should be able to tell if arcing was the cause by looking closely at the ends of the wires. Makes me wonder about my 74 Argosy now. One of these days when I have some spare time (yeah right) I need to crawl all over mine to see what hidden horrors are waiting for me.

Brad
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:06 PM   #38
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I agree Brad, and you are the man now with your dismantling of the 345... you have the knowledge!

Screws, penetrating walls and piercing wires?
Wow, what are the chances of that!!!!
The tools I have are a Powerprobe 3 and Powerprobe ECT2000 Short finder.
With the season of giving coming, they should be on every motorhome owners list!

For those that have not seen this...
I had a dead short on the Horn/Cigar lighter circuit...
Had no clue where...
The ECT 2000 inserts a traceable tone into a wire you need to trace...
It also tells you by tone if the wire is shorted to ground or open...
Note that the green parts are bulb adapters that allow you to check bulb sockets!


Mine was dead shorted, and I traced the tone to the drivers side...
I bagan to take of the trim panel, and as I unscrewed on of the trim screws, the tone changed from the "Shorted" tone to the "Open" tone...

Here is where it was...
This Trim screw in the drivers side trim, pierced the wire PREFECTLY!
The wire was inside the trim... I pulled it out for show..

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Old 10-12-2012, 09:08 PM   #39
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Quick update - I did repair all of the wires and all of my 12v system is now back online including that pesky purple wire! I did heat wrap the wires and also put them in the plastic cord tube/wrap (?) from NAPA. Saturday's task is to put my ceiling back together! My vintage ceiling lights were crumbling so I'll have to grab some new ones at Camping World.
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