Fan and fan clutch

[bkahler]

We finally made it home with the 1974 20' Argosy MH last weekend. Among the missing items is the fan and fan clutch. The PO installed a freshly rebuilt 350 (in place of the missing 454). The water pump installed is the long water pump style.

What I need to know is what diameter fan to source and are there any differences in the fan clutches?

The radiator and shroud are still there and they are for the 454 so I would assume it should provide more than adequate cooling capacity for the 350.

More details about the Argosy after I have sufficient time to recover from the trip

Thanks,

Brad

[Geophilist]

Brad,

Sorry I can't help you on the radiator, but I would like to hear about the trip home. How did you do it and any pointers about the trip would be nice?

Thanks,

Steve

[GlenCoombe]

As you've got the fan and clutch off have you considered going electric fan(s) instead? I'd take the load off the engine if it where me.... especially the 350.
Check out Summitracing.com for options.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by GlenCoombe

As you've got the fan and clutch off have you considered going electric fan(s) instead? I'd take the load off the engine if it where me.... especially the 350.
Check out Summitracing.com for options.

Glen,

Since we've decided to put a 454 back into the MH instead of the 350 thats in it now we'll likely go with electric fans instead of a clutch fan. I'd really like to see photos of another Argosy or Classic that has dual electric fans. Hopefully someone out there can help me out by posting some pictures of dual fan setups

Brad

[safari57]

Brad

I bought a double fan complete with it's own shroud off of eBay some months back. 4,300 cfm. I was amazed and had to have it. I haven't installed it on anything yet but am thinking I will on the '57 Pontiac this winter. But it was very inexpensive and it looks like a quality piece. I and a buddy each bought them (actually he did and I paid him half) as they had a buy it now on them that was, we thought, very low and half what we've seen the same ones selling for locally.

Right now I run a 455 and have the mechanical fan with shroud pulling and an electric (3,300 cfm) pushing (Zirgo fan). I'm not particularly pleased with the Zirgo set up and have it rigged so it kicks in only if the temperature goes over 195, and I can also turn it on manually when I know I'm coming up to a big hill and want to get the temp down to start with, or when I'm sitting idling and don't want the heat to get out of hand. This is my second Zirgo, the first one cratered on us and the quality of it did not seem to be that good, but I did manage to get a partial rebate on the new one so went ahead with a second one. Given a choice of starting from scratch I would not purchase another Zirgo fan.

The new fan/shroud set up will replace the mechanical fan. If you need pictures let me know.

Barry

[TomW]

Originally Posted by bkahler

... we'll likely go with electric fans instead of a clutch fan. ...

Why?

My favorite tow vehicle has a 454, and just yesterday I replaced the radiator and fan clutch.

The radiator I can get over. But the fan clutch was just replaced ~four years ago and should have given me more service. But, since it did crap out, I seriously considered either electric fans or space-age fan blades that bend to zero-pitch in high rpm situations. I opted to replace the $60 fan clutch.

Why do you think electric fans are better?

Thanks,
Tom

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by safari57

Brad

I bought a double fan complete with it's own shroud off of eBay some months back. 4,300 cfm. I was amazed and had to have it. I haven't installed it on anything yet but am thinking I will on the '57 Pontiac this winter. But it was very inexpensive and it looks like a quality piece. I and a buddy each bought them (actually he did and I paid him half) as they had a buy it now on them that was, we thought, very low and half what we've seen the same ones selling for locally.

Right now I run a 455 and have the mechanical fan with shroud pulling and an electric (3,300 cfm) pushing (Zirgo fan). I'm not particularly pleased with the Zirgo set up and have it rigged so it kicks in only if the temperature goes over 195, and I can also turn it on manually when I know I'm coming up to a big hill and want to get the temp down to start with, or when I'm sitting idling and don't want the heat to get out of hand. This is my second Zirgo, the first one cratered on us and the quality of it did not seem to be that good, but I did manage to get a partial rebate on the new one so went ahead with a second one. Given a choice of starting from scratch I would not purchase another Zirgo fan.

The new fan/shroud set up will replace the mechanical fan. If you need pictures let me know.

Barry

Barry, thats good to know about the Zirgo fans. I'll steer clear of that brand. Pictures are always good. Its always nice to see different methods for installing things.

Thanks,

Brad

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by TomW

Why?

My favorite tow vehicle has a 454, and just yesterday I replaced the radiator and fan clutch.

The radiator I can get over. But the fan clutch was just replaced ~four years ago and should have given me more service. But, since it did crap out, I seriously considered either electric fans or space-age fan blades that bend to zero-pitch in high rpm situations. I opted to replace the $60 fan clutch.

Why do you think electric fans are better?

Thanks,
Tom

Why? Because I've heard a lot of people talk about how often they have to replace the fan clutch. Access in a Motorhome to replace the clutch is not that great. On our 310 the previous owner had a new enigne installed and at the same time they replaced the fan clutch. 2 years later he had to replace the fan clutch again.

When you consider that most modern vehicles don't have fans installed off the water pump anymore that should say something about using electric fans in place of a fan clutch.

So, the odds are after installing the 454 I'll be using dual electric cooling fans

Brad

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Why? Because I've heard a lot of people talk about how often they have to replace the fan clutch.

Case in point, I just replaced the less than 6 month old fan clutch on my pickup, it started merely idling along, no matter what the temp was, or what the engine was doing.
If you do go back with the fan clutch, try to find a 7 blade fan, rather than the factory 5 blade one. It does move significantly more air.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Case in point, I just replaced the less than 6 month old fan clutch on my pickup, it started merely idling along, no matter what the temp was, or what the engine was doing.
If you do go back with the fan clutch, try to find a 7 blade fan, rather than the factory 5 blade one. It does move significantly more air.

Terry, do you suppose the early failures are due to parts being made cheaper now or just bad luck?

I'll keep the 7 blade fan i mind if we decide to stay with the clutch. But I've pretty much got my mind made up about going with electric fans. This 20' Argosy is also going to be towing our 31' Excella so I want as much cooling as I can get.

Brad

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Terry, do you suppose the early failures are due to parts being made cheaper now or just bad luck?

Brad

In this instance, I would say it was a cheap part. After pulling it off, it had to be the absolute cheapest one in town.

[safari57]

Quality of parts has been one of my issues. Particularly when purchasing non-OEM replacement components. Starters and water pumps - be they rebuilt or new, as sold by several jobbers in our area for 20% less, turn out to have a lot less life span than just going and paying the big bucks at the dealership. The upside to buying OEM is that I only have to do the work myself once rather than every while, and generally not on the road. The fixing things on the road due to cheap parts is not fun nor is it rewarding in any way. Sure I can do it with the tools I happen to have along, but it raises questions about every other part on the car I bought from the same jobber and my angst factor goes up until we get home.

One caution - ask your dealer where he's getting the parts - are they actually OEM or are they picking them up from the jobber as well and making a few extra bucks that way for over the counter sales. In a couple of situations asking that question has caused the parts guy to go back to the shelves and bring out a different one - I suspect the ones they use themselves when doing warranty repairs, etc.

A friend told me he asks now if the part was made in China and they open the box and look to see what is on it for a decal. If it is, and they can't come up with an alternative, he asks for extended warranty, in writing. I've not been in that situation yet, but intend to ask the question when I do find myself with no option but a cheap Chinese replacement part.

Barry

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by overlander63

In this instance, I would say it was a cheap part. After pulling it off, it had to be the absolute cheapest one in town.

Its a shame but that seems to be the case with just about everything now days.

Brad

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Its a shame but that seems to be the case with just about everything now days.

Brad

It doesn't have anything to do with your current situation, other than cheap parts, but the starter in the truck bit the dust at a rest area last weekend. The replacement starter I got (beggars can't be choosers on a Saturday afternoon) had a "made in mexico" sticker on it. "mexico" was misspelled "MEXIGO" . It failed yesterday, and damaged the battery in the truck as well. Now I had to re-replace the "mexigan" starter, and put a new battery in to boot.

[safari57]

Originally Posted by overlander63

It doesn't have anything to do with your current situation, other than cheap parts, but the starter in the truck bit the dust at a rest area last weekend. The replacement starter I got (beggars can't be choosers on a Saturday afternoon) had a "made in mexico" sticker on it. "mexico" was misspelled "MEXIGO" . It failed yesterday, and damaged the battery in the truck as well. Now I had to re-replace the "mexigan" starter, and put a new battery in to boot.

Perhaps the Made in Mexigo decal was made in China? Sorry, Terry, I couldn't help myself. Crummy thing to happen.

The world is dissolving around us in bad parts. No wonder the garbage landfill sites are overloaded. It's all the cheap stuff being sent in, and wholesalers here who don't particularly care.

Barry

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by overlander63

It doesn't have anything to do with your current situation, other than cheap parts, but the starter in the truck bit the dust at a rest area last weekend. The replacement starter I got (beggars can't be choosers on a Saturday afternoon) had a "made in mexico" sticker on it. "mexico" was misspelled "MEXIGO" . It failed yesterday, and damaged the battery in the truck as well. Now I had to re-replace the "mexigan" starter, and put a new battery in to boot.

Wow, talk about adding insult to injury. We've got similar problems on our Triumph sports cars. The distributor caps, rotors and condensors that are sold now are cheap clones that don't last long. I've resorted to saving all the old original components. I'd rather use an original used part than something that will leave me stranded on the road somewhere.

Brad

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Wow, talk about adding insult to injury. We've got similar problems on our Triumph sports cars. The distributor caps, rotors and condensors that are sold now are cheap clones that don't last long. I've resorted to saving all the old original components. I'd rather use an original used part than something that will leave me stranded on the road somewhere.

Brad

And Lucas used to be called "the prince of darkness"...
A month ago I helped another forums member do a tune up on his Range Rover. We installed a new cap, rotor, wires, and plugs. It then wouldn't start. Last thing I did, after hours of head scratching and cussing, was pull the replacement rotor off, and turn it over. The tab for the distributor shaft was offset about 5 degrees, just enough to make the truck not run. Put the old rotor back in, and the truck started like nothing was ever wrong.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by overlander63

And Lucas used to be called "the prince of darkness"...
A month ago I helped another forums member do a tune up on his Range Rover. We installed a new cap, rotor, wires, and plugs. It then wouldn't start. Last thing I did, after hours of head scratching and cussing, was pull the replacement rotor off, and turn it over. The tab for the distributor shaft was offset about 5 degrees, just enough to make the truck not run. Put the old rotor back in, and the truck started like nothing was ever wrong.

Oddly enough I've found the early original Lucas components to very good. It wasn't until the repro parts started hitting the market that I started having "Lucas" problems with my vehicles Just a sign of the times I guess.

Brad