Body Swap on a 24 Argosy

[Isuzusweet]

Just now also re read the OP's original posting......He's looking for a manual transmission Cummins swap.

Just curious, anyone want to try and mind bend the complexity of linking a transmission a couple of feet behind you to a stick ........??? Where would you put the stick? I think this engineering feat would be better off in a VW forum; maybe T2 Kombi's?

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I was thinking even simpler Brad.

This is the standard DAF 45 binnacle, and I was expecting this to simply sit on a new dash, much akin to how the current p30 instruments sit on the early dashes.

Attachment 324260

Simply unplugged from the donor dash and re-plugged into the same connectors once the binnacle is inserted in the new dash. Nothing changing and nothing being added. The new dash would have to include slots for the donor vents but everything else is the same. All the controls on the donor steering column would be the same as well. I can't see how anything needs changing other than the actual connection to the Argosy lights?

Attachment 324261

No doubt there is a need for a set of gauges/controls relating to the Airstream coach services but they can sit somewhere else on the new dash

Judging by the size of the large gauge the DAF 45 binnacle would have no problems fitting within the 74-76 Argosy dash face.

Here's a picture of my reworked instrument cluster. It looks like the DAF 45 binnacle would fit nicely on the panel or better yet transfer the DAF gauges to a new blank panel.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just now also re read the OP's original posting......He's looking for a manual transmission Cummins swap.

Just curious, anyone want to try and mind bend the complexity of linking a transmission a couple of feet behind you to a stick ........??? Where would you put the stick? I think this engineering feat would be better off in a VW forum; maybe T2 Kombi's?

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

I was wondering about that myself. It would make for a rather interesting looking shift lever......

[mikeajana]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Swapping over a dashboard into an Argosy from any other vehicle would be no easy task.......I'm still hopeful I can somehow transfer the main dashboard binnacle from the Bounder to the Argosy.....all I'm saying is this; the newer the donor vehicle, the harder it gets. The wiring harnesses that I saw in the Isuzu NPR scared the beejeezers out of me as there were going to computers, fuse boxes and sensors everywhere on the truck, leaving me wondering on stuff like, how was I going to incooperate the Isuzu huge air box and tube affair, (which had maintainance and performance sensors all over it), into the Argosy.

I decided it was way above my pay grade.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

My back won't handle the heavy lifting and welding part, but the avionics is my favorite. It's a puzzle to me and keeps me excited, would love to take that part on.
The donor vehicle is in the same price point as the donor engine/tranny combos I've found. A one way ferry ride and the mechanical expense make it a wash compared a local install.
Now you are in customizer heaven for re-upholstery, tanks, plumbing and other mods.
I've got my friends searching for Polish chop shops!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I was wondering about that myself. It would make for a rather interesting looking shift lever......

More a case of the dog house being totally different as the ZF gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by martin300662

more a case of the dog house being totally different as the zf gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

This from a RHD truck to put the shift to the right side of the engine, the LHD version is more complex but routes down the left side of the engine.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

More a case of the dog house being totally different as the ZF gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

I wonder if the linkage could be brought out to the side of the doghouse cover instead? But as you suggest, getting in and out of the seat could be problematic.

[Isuzusweet]

By Jove, I've got it!

My Grandfather owned a Renault back in the UK that had the shifter coming out of the dash. I think my Dad's Citroen 2CV had the same dash mounted shifter.

So shifter is in the dash hooked up to some sort of electronics box that would recognize what gear was being selected; sending a signal down to another box that would actually select the gear.

Easy, peasy.....right?[emoji57]

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[Smartstream]

I don't want to get too far out but every cab over or forward control truck with a manual transmission has a long linkage setup from the shift lever back to the transmission. Cars with front engine/rear wheel drive that have a manual transmission and column shift have interesting linkage from shift lever to the transmission. It' just not a difficult problem to solve.

Tony my 2 CV has a tiny trans with the normal shift lever coming straight up from the top of the box. It is connected by a simple link to a horizontal shift lever coming through the dash. It is shifted by pushing or pulling the lever and twisting side to side. A very simple system that works very well.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

By Jove, I've got it!

My Grandfather owned a Renault back in the UK that had the shifter coming out of the dash. I think my Dad's Citroen 2CV had the same dash mounted shifter.

So shifter is in the dash hooked up to some sort of electronics box that would recognize what gear was being selected; sending a signal down to another box that would actually select the gear.

Easy, peasy.....right?[emoji57]

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

Easy if you're in my line of work which is Automation Engineering

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Easy if you're in my line of work which is Automation Engineering

I can tell you guys are warming to the idea....well being less hostile any way!

[Smartstream]

This is a YouTube on 2 CV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2be9rJgnVZA

You can see the under hood linkage @ 3:00 minutes in and the shift lever operation @ 4:30. Fun little cars.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I can tell you guys are warming to the idea....well being less hostile any way!

Well.....I'm no sure I'd go quite that far....

[mikeajana]

Everything I have seen in this thread I have taken as encouragement!



I am a fabricator. I have ideas in my head that I will never be able to implement because I am more creative than capable, but I never shy away from a challenge.


This thread is tremendous, I am grateful for the inspiration it is creating.


The dash in our Argosy has already been removed. In my opinion, it has always begged for a redesign. I have done this before with great success both on vehicles and airplanes. It would now be a simple task to replace the General Motors instruments with the gauges from the donor. The biggest benefit here is the ability to redesign the air conditioning distribution system. Huge added benefit. We live in Florida and our destinations of choice definitely tend towards warmer climes.


The biggest factor that grabbed me, or hooked me here, was this picture posted by martin300662 on the 1975 Argosy value thread.




It shows the Cummins power plant resting in the frame rails with a magnificent manual shift lever sitting within very close proximity of where the Argosy driver’s seat should be. In my "Imagineering" of a diesel conversion, I have not found a practical solution to this. Manual is definitely my preference. I've been looking for a way do fabricate this on a dodge pick up donor, and here it is.
It makes more sense in the whole scheme.


I know registration can be a huge issue, and importation even more so. The goal here is to modify our 40 year old Argosy, not build a DAF motorhome and take it to another country, so thats what I'll focus on.


Big Mahalo! keep it coming.

[mikeajana]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Swapping over a dashboard into an Argosy from any other vehicle would be no easy task.......I'm still hopeful I can somehow transfer the main dashboard binnacle from the Bounder to the Argosy.....all I'm saying is this; the newer the donor vehicle, the harder it gets. The wiring harnesses that I saw in the Isuzu NPR scared the beejeezers out of me as there were going to computers, fuse boxes and sensors everywhere on the truck, leaving me wondering on stuff like, how was I going to incooperate the Isuzu huge air box and tube affair, (which had maintainance and performance sensors all over it), into the Argosy.

I decided it was way above my pay grade.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

I see this as a fun challenge, like a puzzle.

It gets me so excited and keeps me awake and my the shop.

I get so immersed in it that my wife brings our dinner to the project, something we both enjoy.

[mikeajana]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I can tell you guys are warming to the idea....well being less hostile any way!

I'm warm to the idea.

[mikeajana]

So I had to go visit the Argosy and her paperwork for a picture.

Here is or VIN plate, riveted to the Body:


and also the title, which identifies ARGS as the make.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by mikeajana

So I had to go visit the Argosy and her paperwork for a picture.

Here is or VIN plate, riveted to the Body:


and also the title, which identifies ARGS as the make.

The question is which vin number is on the title. Is it the CPY number or does it start with an M? The M number is the Airstream provided vin number which is what mine is titled under. If your's is the CPY number, that is the GM number and theoretically if you replace the chassis you're eliminating the CPY number.

I don't know if GM stamped the chassis with the CPY number like some manufacturers do, if so when you remove the GM chassis and put in a DAF chassis you're changing the vin. Technically the GM vin plate is riveted to part of the GM chassis. However when you swap chassis I doubt you'll be removing the firewall which would mean the GM vin plate stays where it is.

I guess it would all boil down to who does the inspections, how smart they are and just how much do they want to ruin your day!

Brad

[mikeajana]

Originally Posted by bkahler

The question is which vin number is on the title. Is it the CPY number or does it start with an M? The M number is the Airstream provided vin number which is what mine is titled under. If your's is the CPY number, that is the GM number and theoretically if you replace the chassis you're eliminating the CPY number.

I don't know if GM stamped the chassis with the CPY number like some manufacturers do, if so when you remove the GM chassis and put in a DAF chassis you're changing the vin. Technically the GM vin plate is riveted to part of the GM chassis. However when you swap chassis I doubt you'll be removing the firewall which would mean the GM vin plate stays where it is.

I guess it would all boil down to who does the inspections, how smart they are and just how much do they want to ruin your day!

Brad

Title says ARGS. The number is CPY, not M.
It is the GM plate, riveted to the firewall that has the VIN number matching the title.
The plate says MFD by General Motors, same as my Oldsmobile and Corvette.

We would not touch this plate.

Vin plate stays where it is, registration stays where it is.

Most important, nothing with another VIN stamp gets transferred to the Argosy.



I love adventures, we can ship anywhere in North America that has a favorable entry point.


"All we did was repair and upgrade, officer"; an easier argument on 40 year old metal, one would hope.

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

IMHO Buying one of these commercial trucks and placing an Argosy body on top presents a host of new problems....

Meeting DOT regulations of your particular country you live in; let alone the one you drive into.

Also these are commercial vehicles, with possibly front beam with spring axles up front and really heavy duty spring axles out back; giving you a ride akin to an old western buckboard. I'd drive the truck before I'd dive into it.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

This one seems like an easy fix to me. The DAF 4x4 chassis has leaf springs front and rear, as far as I can tell from the pictures. To lighten the ride, remove a leaf or 2 from each spring pack.

I've changed spring rates on numerous different vehicles in the driveway. Or take it to a spring shop and they can make a new set or modify yours.


We did it to several former Uhaul 28 foot box trucks we converted to mobile Foam Insulation spray rigs. The uhauls were a little weak for what we were hauling. A spring shop added a leaf to the existing springs and voila, it carried the 10,000 pound load like a champ.
We did it to a big 4x4 truck chassis in my youth, when we mated a mustang body with big mud bog tires. Pulled several leafs off and it worked.

My thought and opinion, but I'm not claiming to be a rocket surgeon.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by mikeajana

Title says ARGS. The number is CPY, not M.
It is the GM plate, riveted to the firewall that has the VIN number matching the title.
The plate says MFD by General Motors, same as my Oldsmobile and Corvette.

We would not touch this plate.

Vin plate stays where it is, registration stays where it is.

Most important, nothing with another VIN stamp gets transferred to the Argosy.



I love adventures, we can ship anywhere in North America that has a favorable entry point.


"All we did was repair and upgrade, officer"; an easier argument on 40 year old metal, one would hope.





This one seems like an easy fix to me. The DAF 4x4 chassis has leaf springs front and rear, as far as I can tell from the pictures. To lighten the ride, remove a leaf or 2 from each spring pack.

I've changed spring rates on numerous different vehicles in the driveway. Or take it to a spring shop and they can make a new set or modify yours.


We did it to several former Uhaul 28 foot box trucks we converted to mobile Foam Insulation spray rigs. The uhauls were a little weak for what we were hauling. A spring shop added a leaf to the existing springs and voila, it carried the 10,000 pound load like a champ.
We did it to a big 4x4 truck chassis in my youth, when we mated a mustang body with big mud bog tires. Pulled several leafs off and it worked.

My thought and opinion, but I'm not claiming to be a rocket surgeon.

Ok now we are getting to some of the specifics. If you are going the DAF 45 4x4 route (and remember they are not a dually rear axle so check the weight capacity) and you want a LHD I would look as some of the online vendors of ex-MOD trucks some list on eBay but others have online stores. These will not yet be registered for civilian use on the road but can be bought for export only so will not ever be registered for use in the UK.