Body Swap on a 24 Argosy

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I guess I was also considering this as a body swap....ie the dash instruments and electrics would all come from the donor with just the chassis lighting circuits connecting to the original lights.

Swapping over a dashboard into an Argosy from any other vehicle would be no easy task.......I'm still hopeful I can somehow transfer the main dashboard binnacle from the Bounder to the Argosy.....all I'm saying is this; the newer the donor vehicle, the harder it gets. The wiring harnesses that I saw in the Isuzu NPR scared the beejeezers out of me as there were going to computers, fuse boxes and sensors everywhere on the truck, leaving me wondering on stuff like, how was I going to incooperate the Isuzu huge air box and tube affair, (which had maintainance and performance sensors all over it), into the Argosy.

I decided it was way above my pay grade.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

IMHO Buying one of these commercial trucks and placing an Argosy body on top presents a host of new problems....

Meeting DOT regulations of your peticular country you live in; let alone the one you drive into.

Being able to assimilate both the chassis electrics to the Argosy electrics. For example: I was looking at an Isuzu 4HK1-TC swap but decided that intergrating the electronics of the Isuzu into the Argosy for dashboard gauges and the like would have been insane.

Also these are commercial vehicles, with possibly front beam with spring axles up front and really heavy duty spring axles out back; giving you a ride akin to an old western buckboard. I'd drive the truck before I'd dive into it.

I'm finding easier to just replace the 454 with the Cummins. Any problems marrying Dodge to Chev have been thought out long ago, and there's a huge aftermarket parts source to help out with the conversion, from motor mounts, to different exhaust manifold configurations.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

I think Tony is spot-on with regards to the 454 to Cummins swap. It's a swap that's been performed a thousand times with great success. As for the swapping of a commercial truck chassis for the P30 chassis, keep in mind the P30 chassis under the Argosy is not the typical P30 truck chassis used in box trucks, etc. For the Argosy (and later motorhomes) the P30 chassis was upgraded with independent front suspension, larger front and rear brakes and if the chassis was long enough the rear brakes were changed to disk brakes. Also the front and rear sway bars were increased in size to help keep the swaying to a minimum.

Bottom line is I'd think long and hard AND take a test drive in any potential donor to be sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

As for donors that would require instrumentation swaps, have fun trying to redo the instrument cluster and dash to try and make it look decent! I have some experience in that regard and it's a whole lotta work

Something else about this process that I'm confused about. Suppose you take a US registered vehicle with vin # xxxyyy1234 to Poland and swap in a different chassis with vin # zzzddd5678 built to European specs. To me that means vin # xxxyyy1234 no longer exist and you probably wouldn't be able to return it to the US as being the same Argosy that headed to Poland. I would think you're actually trying to import a new vehicle. I believe moving a vin plate from one chassis to another is illegal, at least in the US. Am I missing something here?


Brad

[Smartstream]

Another point is many jurisdictions change requirements to the year of the newer component. A 90's vintage engine meets 90's smog and safety regulations. If you live in an area with no inspections you can slip an engine in without being noticed. If you import or export, things get interesting well beyond getting the actual conversion done and weather it is now an Argosy or a DAF. Calif. calls it a special construction model year the year the conversion is completed and all the new regulations to match. Lots of fun.

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

As for donors that would require instrumentation swaps, have fun trying to redo the instrument cluster and dash to try and make it look decent! I have some experience in that regard and it's a whole lotta work

Certainly what I am suggestion would use none of the original instrument cluster, it would be a custom dash to house the donor instrument binnacle.

Originally Posted by bkahler

Something else about this process that I'm confused about. Suppose you take a US registered vehicle with vin # xxxyyy1234 to Poland and swap in a different chassis with vin # zzzddd5678 built to European specs. To me that means vin # xxxyyy1234 no longer exist and you probably wouldn't be able to return it to the US as being the same Argosy that headed to Poland. I would think you're actually trying to import a new vehicle. I believe moving a vin plate from one chassis to another is illegal, at least in the US. Am I missing something here?

This why I suggested they check their own title. If it is titled with the GMC VIN, exactly what you describe has happened. If it is titled with the Argosy VIN, then that remains.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Certainly what I am suggestion would use none of the original instrument cluster, it would be a custom dash to house the donor instrument binnacle.

Ok, I had to look up the definition of binnacle! As far as looks go a wholesale change out of the gauges will require a lot of planning and effort. A poorly done instrument cluster just makes everything look cheap.

This why I suggested they check their own title. If it is titled with the GMC VIN, exactly what you describe has happened. If it is titled with the Argosy VIN, then that remains.

My Argosy is titled by the Airstream supplied vin. My old 84 310 I'm pretty sure was titled by the GM vin. From what I've read it seems to be hit and miss as to which vin was used in the titling process. I guess if you're going to do a body swap you'd be better off with an Argosy that is currently titled by the Airstream supplied vin. That would certainly save a whole lot of hassle down the road.

Brad

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Ok, I had to look up the definition of binnacle! As far as looks go a wholesale change out of the gauges will require a lot of planning and effort. A poorly done instrument cluster just makes everything look cheap.

I was thinking even simpler Brad.

This is the standard DAF 45 binnacle, and I was expecting this to simply sit on a new dash, much akin to how the current p30 instruments sit on the early dashes.



Simply unplugged from the donor dash and re-plugged into the same connectors once the binnacle is inserted in the new dash. Nothing changing and nothing being added. The new dash would have to include slots for the donor vents but everything else is the same. All the controls on the donor steering column would be the same as well. I can't see how anything needs changing other than the actual connection to the Argosy lights?



No doubt there is a need for a set of gauges/controls relating to the Airstream coach services but they can sit somewhere else on the new dash

[Isuzusweet]

Just now also re read the OP's original posting......He's looking for a manual transmission Cummins swap.

Just curious, anyone want to try and mind bend the complexity of linking a transmission a couple of feet behind you to a stick ........??? Where would you put the stick? I think this engineering feat would be better off in a VW forum; maybe T2 Kombi's?

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

I was thinking even simpler Brad.

This is the standard DAF 45 binnacle, and I was expecting this to simply sit on a new dash, much akin to how the current p30 instruments sit on the early dashes.

Attachment 324260

Simply unplugged from the donor dash and re-plugged into the same connectors once the binnacle is inserted in the new dash. Nothing changing and nothing being added. The new dash would have to include slots for the donor vents but everything else is the same. All the controls on the donor steering column would be the same as well. I can't see how anything needs changing other than the actual connection to the Argosy lights?

Attachment 324261

No doubt there is a need for a set of gauges/controls relating to the Airstream coach services but they can sit somewhere else on the new dash

Judging by the size of the large gauge the DAF 45 binnacle would have no problems fitting within the 74-76 Argosy dash face.

Here's a picture of my reworked instrument cluster. It looks like the DAF 45 binnacle would fit nicely on the panel or better yet transfer the DAF gauges to a new blank panel.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Just now also re read the OP's original posting......He's looking for a manual transmission Cummins swap.

Just curious, anyone want to try and mind bend the complexity of linking a transmission a couple of feet behind you to a stick ........??? Where would you put the stick? I think this engineering feat would be better off in a VW forum; maybe T2 Kombi's?

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

I was wondering about that myself. It would make for a rather interesting looking shift lever......

[mikeajana]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Swapping over a dashboard into an Argosy from any other vehicle would be no easy task.......I'm still hopeful I can somehow transfer the main dashboard binnacle from the Bounder to the Argosy.....all I'm saying is this; the newer the donor vehicle, the harder it gets. The wiring harnesses that I saw in the Isuzu NPR scared the beejeezers out of me as there were going to computers, fuse boxes and sensors everywhere on the truck, leaving me wondering on stuff like, how was I going to incooperate the Isuzu huge air box and tube affair, (which had maintainance and performance sensors all over it), into the Argosy.

I decided it was way above my pay grade.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

My back won't handle the heavy lifting and welding part, but the avionics is my favorite. It's a puzzle to me and keeps me excited, would love to take that part on.
The donor vehicle is in the same price point as the donor engine/tranny combos I've found. A one way ferry ride and the mechanical expense make it a wash compared a local install.
Now you are in customizer heaven for re-upholstery, tanks, plumbing and other mods.
I've got my friends searching for Polish chop shops!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I was wondering about that myself. It would make for a rather interesting looking shift lever......

More a case of the dog house being totally different as the ZF gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by martin300662

more a case of the dog house being totally different as the zf gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

This from a RHD truck to put the shift to the right side of the engine, the LHD version is more complex but routes down the left side of the engine.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by martin300662

More a case of the dog house being totally different as the ZF gearbox has a remote linkage to bring the shifter up to sitting on top but in the center if the engine.

The dog house will have to become a lift off cover. I am more worried about swinging my leg over it to get in and out off the front seats!

I wonder if the linkage could be brought out to the side of the doghouse cover instead? But as you suggest, getting in and out of the seat could be problematic.

[Isuzusweet]

By Jove, I've got it!

My Grandfather owned a Renault back in the UK that had the shifter coming out of the dash. I think my Dad's Citroen 2CV had the same dash mounted shifter.

So shifter is in the dash hooked up to some sort of electronics box that would recognize what gear was being selected; sending a signal down to another box that would actually select the gear.

Easy, peasy.....right?

Cheers
Sidekick Tony