Ben's '78 Argosy thread

[martin300662]

I will check my donor Ben, and you can have the door if it matches. My donor is the same year as yours so it also has the same bumpers etc.

Its a shame these beasts cost so much to ship, because I would happily 'donate my donor' to someone which a later model unit, but equally I would love the 1975 that is being parted out in Dickinson (Galveston) as it is just the longer version of our 20ft and I could use just about all of it as spares.....it even has the elusive lower front valance in a repairable state.

[bpg_austin]

Martin, that would be greatly appreciated sir. I'll do my very best to make it worth your while if the door is available.

[bpg_austin]

New topic of the day.
I'm working on my steering column again before Blanco in hopes of getting it fixed. Needed a steering wheel puller last night so I moved on to another project. The dash heat and defrost, which don't work. I'm just thinking this through right now, so please feel free to chime in and tell me how this set-up works.
My assumption is: I have 2 seperate systems, correct? One system, centrally located above the doghouse, is JUST for the A/C system. This assembly, with its own blower motor ONLY runs the AC. The other system, controlled from the drivers seat, with levers, controls the other blower motor located behind the heater core. (located on the floor in front of the passenger seat.) Am I correct in these assumptions?
The controls on the dash do not have an 'off' switch for the blower motor. Only low-med-high. So, when the key is on, this motor should be running all the time. correct? Mine is not. I found this thread, for a '90 AS moho that looks pretty similar. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...c-17683-2.html
I'm guessing I'll be checking fuses both at the panel as well as in-line if applicable. Also expecting to be removing the heater core to access the blower motor.
I know this got long-winded, but does this train of thought sound correct? I'd like to have some defrost in the old beast at some point.. as well as a working heater for those cold Texas drives.

Thanks for any feedback gang.
Ben

[mayco]

Your description is pretty much right on. Mine is an 82 Classic so there may be some differences. I DO have an off position on my heater blower switch for example. The heater blower is accessed from the front of the rig under the hood on the firewall, left hand side as you face the vehicle. There is a two wire connector at the blower motor where you can put your multimeter on to test for voltage. The heat settings are push/pull cables. One controls the inline valve next to your heater core, letting the warm coolant pass through your heater core.....or not. The other cable controls vent duct flaps for floor and defrost vents.

Mike

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by bpg_austin

New topic of the day.
I'm working on my steering column again before Blanco in hopes of getting it fixed. Needed a steering wheel puller last night so I moved on to another project. The dash heat and defrost, which don't work. I'm just thinking this through right now, so please feel free to chime in and tell me how this set-up works.
My assumption is: I have 2 seperate systems, correct? One system, centrally located above the doghouse, is JUST for the A/C system. This assembly, with its own blower motor ONLY runs the AC. The other system, controlled from the drivers seat, with levers, controls the other blower motor located behind the heater core. (located on the floor in front of the passenger seat.) Am I correct in these assumptions?
The controls on the dash do not have an 'off' switch for the blower motor. Only low-med-high. So, when the key is on, this motor should be running all the time. correct? Mine is not. I found this thread, for a '90 AS moho that looks pretty similar. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...c-17683-2.html
I'm guessing I'll be checking fuses both at the panel as well as in-line if applicable. Also expecting to be removing the heater core to access the blower motor.
I know this got long-winded, but does this train of thought sound correct? I'd like to have some defrost in the old beast at some point.. as well as a working heater for those cold Texas drives.

Thanks for any feedback gang.
Ben

Ben, I know Airstream used at least three or four different versions on the dash AC system possibly more. My 74 Argosy is very similar to the 84 310 and 86 345 that I had. There were various difference but not enough to change the basic method of how they were controlled.

I can describe how a 74 Argosy is set up which was very similar to the 84 310. Neither were controlled as you describe. If you could provide pictures of your dash controls and your heater/evaporator box that would help.

On my 74 Argosy there is only one combined system. The heater core and evaporator core are in the same box which is attached to the firewall on the front side of the firewall. There are two blower motors on top of the box with a duct or plenum that runs across the front top area of the firewall. The plenum has a series of holes in it with hoses that go to the various areas of the dash including the defroster ducts.

The controls are from a 73 Mustang and control both heat and AC just like in any car. There is a valve in the heater hose from the engine to the heater core that works from a slide on the dash control. The fan switch on the control assembly controls both blower motors.

Dash controls.


Evaporator box.


Evaporator box with plenum.


Does your dash look like this one?


If so I think the only real difference is the slider control on the left controls the heater valve that controls coolant flow to the heater core. This control assembly controls where the air is directed. I am assuming it also controls the fans in the heater/evaporator box on the firewall.

The other control in the lower center controls the operation of the compressor clutch. It probably has a sensing tube that goes to the evaporator core and senses when the temperature is cold enough to turn off the compressor clutch. There is probably a switch on this control that turns the AC on and off or more precisely controls the operation of the compressor clutch. With the switch off the clutch can't engage, with the switch on the clutch will engage if the temperature control knob is set to a cold enough temperature.

In theory with this arrangement you could have the AC running (clutch engaged) and your heater control set to provide full heat. This combination actually gives you something the early Classic's and my Argosy don't have, heated and dried air to the defroster ducts. Modern vehicles turn the AC on when the defroster is selected which helps defog the windshield.

On yours I'm not sure if the fan should be running all the time or not. That would depend on which vehicle Airstream pulled your heater control assembly. As I mentioned earlier my Argosy is from a 73 Mustang. The 84 310 control assembly was from a early to mid 80s Dodge van.

Brad

[bpg_austin]

I'll have to get some pics tonight. This is really preliminary as I'm just trying to figure out how both systems work. Weird set-up. My dash looks similar to your last pic Brad. (PO pics, not my dog!). Above the radio, the cable controls are double sliders and to the left a vertical fan speed selector. ranging from low to high. no 'off'.

[bkahler]

Is there a fan control on the AC control panel or just on/off and temperature knob?

[bpg_austin]

There is a fan control on the AC panel. so, I have fan control on the center panel and fan control on the drivers dash. I'm assuming for both, independent systems. Bizarre set-up Airstream..
AC fan on center console works fine. (not charged, but blows). Its just the defrost/heater fan that isn't functioning.

Pics tonight so I'm not posting up inaccurate info by accident.

[bkahler]

Ben, can you positively verify that there are multiple fan systems? Two inside the heater/evaporator box makes sense as every one that I've seen has that arrangement. I'm struggling to figure out where you might have a 3rd or 4th fan installed.

I'm also wondering if the fan control on the heater control assembly might be disabled and only the one on the AC panel is used.

You've got some investigative work ahead of you

[bpg_austin]

Originally Posted by bkahler

You've got some investigative work ahead of you

Yes, I do. I'm sure the system is simple. Its just the owner who's confusing!

[mayco]

On my '82, the heater fan is located as I mentioned and the AC fan is below the center of the dash. AC controls are in the center of the dash and seperate heater controls in front of the driver. Sounds similar to Bens but who knows. Seems like there were a lot of changes made in the 310s from 82 to 84. The heater blows only to the lower floor vents and the defrost. The AC blower comes threw the vents on the dash. Very very odd.

[mayco]

Edit: the heater also blows through a vent in the kick panel in front of the passenger seat. THAT vent control is another push pull cable under the dash to the right in front of the passenger seat.

[bkahler]

Wow! That's definitely a hybrid system. I think I like the arrangement in my Argosy better!

You can pretty much ignore my write up as it sounds like Mike's setup is going to match what you have.

Brad

[mayco]

Hehehehehe, I KNOW Brad....crazy.

[bpg_austin]

Originally Posted by mayco

On my '82, the heater fan is located as I mentioned and the AC fan is below the center of the dash. AC controls are in the center of the dash and seperate heater controls in front of the driver. Sounds similar to Bens but who knows. Seems like there were a lot of changes made in the 310s from 82 to 84. The heater blows only to the lower floor vents and the defrost. The AC blower comes threw the vents on the dash. Very very odd.

Yes, sounds exact to mine. I'd LOVE to have a nice sit-down chat with some of these AS designers back in the day. ???

[mayco]

Its my understanding that the AC system used was provided by ACME AC. (Not joking about the name). They are still in business I think but I dont know that for a fact.

[mayco]

Motorhome Dash AC and Heat systems

[bpg_austin]

Last night was the steering wheel. Puller worked great, but this is going to be a chore. Tons of parts in these things to get down to the tilt portion and shifting rods. I'll be at it this weekend. I didn't get out to work until after dark, so no looking for her blower motor.

Also, the fan does shut off. Obviously.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by mayco

Motorhome Dash AC and Heat systems

I bought replacement vacuum servos from this guy for my evaporator box.. He definitely has a bunch of parts.

Brad

[dadstoy]

Hey Ben, you probably have already figured all this out, but from the pics of your dash and your explanation of the HVAC systems you have, it is exactly as Mike (mayco) has explained. Your dash is practically identical to mine which is also an '82 like Mike's. Looks like AS used the same system in your Argosy as they did in the later Airstream's.

The heater/defroster system is separate and independent from the A/C system. Both are very simple systems and I feel they work well.

I never noticed until I looked at a pic of my heater controls today that my fan switch is the same as yours which shows low, med, high. However, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the bottom position is OFF and there is only a low and high fan speed setting. The heater/defroster fan is off when the switch is on the bottom position.

The heater/defroster fan is located on the front side of the firewall and is accessed through the front "hood". The fan switch is powered via a fuse on the fuse block, so check the fuse first. Check to see that the wires on the switch are connected and are good. The fan on high can draw a lot of amps. I had to replace one of the connectors on a wire at the switch...it was burnt. There are three wires on the switch. The switch wires then go over to the box that the heater core is located in. The wires connect to a large resistor at the heater core. This resistor is what provides the two speeds of the fan motor. The reason the resistor is located on the heater core box is to keep it cool when the fan is running. Check this resistor to see that it is in working order. It can be removed. Look to see if the exposed coiled wires are not broken. Be very careful when handling the resistor if you have had the switch on...it can be very hot!

Next, check to see if there is power at the connector at the fan. If you have power at the connector but the fan is not working, the issue is probably the fan motor itself...this is the problem that I had a few years back. I checked with an AS dealer for a replacement fan and I just about fell over at the price they wanted...no way in h*** would I ever pay that price! I looked around for a replacement fan motor of which there are a million different ones out there but impossible to find the right one since there is no part number on the original.

Then I happened to ask an "old timer" about the fan motor and he lead me right to the solution. Rarely does a fan motor actually go back or burn out. Usually it stops working do to none use and the shaft rusting up some. He told me what to do and it worked! The fan motor is still working to this day. Pull the fan motor off the firewall. Remove the quarrel cage. Drill a small hole through the small cap on the outside of the motor. Spray a lot of WD40 into the hole and on the shaft on the other end. Take a hammer and moderately hit the end of the shaft. Spin the shaft by hand. Repeat the process a few times of spraying with WD40 and loosening the shaft with a hammer.

That's about all there is to the heater/defroster system. The heater/defroster duct work is a large metal plenum. There is a gate in the plenum that directs heat to the heater ducts or the the defroster ducts. The four defroster vents on top of the dash have a short flexible ducts. Mine were all rotted. Another issue I had is that the metal duct coming off the top of the plenum was never actually connected so there was a large air gap at that point which I sealed up.

When I had the fan motor removed, I wire wheeled it and painted it before I reinstalled it on the firewall...my 30+ year old fan looked new!