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Old 07-17-2019, 11:50 PM   #1
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1976 28' Argosy 28
Chambly , Quebec
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 19
Argosy window seals

Bonjour,

I am finally tackling the interior renovation. Started by taking out pretty much... everything
Realised floor was rotten in some areas.
Took it out and replaced with new subfloor. So far, pretty easy but if the floor is rotten it means I have a leak or... multiple leaks (I do).
So, I started to open the walls and ceiling and found:
- small leak from the cable that opens and closes the vent over the stove
- leak from the vent over the fridge
- small leak from the antenna cable
- small leaks from the vista views
- leak from the front, probably the windshield (haven't gotten there yet)
- and... big leaks from the windows.

Which brings me to my questions (by the way, it took me over 3 hours to scrape and clean only 1 window frame)

1- I bought 41' of window trim seal, 23' of vertical lip and 88' of fuzzy glass channel from VTS. Is the fuzzy glass supposed to go all the way down in the channel (the channels are in a kind of an ''H'' shape with the ''H'' being open in the middle). I'm afraid to push it past the lips and all the way down?

2- There are holes at the bottom of the track in which the slidding windows go into. Is that normal? Because that is where the water was coming in.

3- I understand the weep holes on the external side of the outter channel. But the ones on the internal side let the water in and then down trough the before mentionned holes into the wall???

Thanks
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:53 AM   #2
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1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKlein View Post
Bonjour,

I am finally tackling the interior renovation. Started by taking out pretty much... everything
Realised floor was rotten in some areas.
Took it out and replaced with new subfloor. So far, pretty easy but if the floor is rotten it means I have a leak or... multiple leaks (I do).
So, I started to open the walls and ceiling and found:
- small leak from the cable that opens and closes the vent over the stove
- leak from the vent over the fridge
- small leak from the antenna cable
- small leaks from the vista views
- leak from the front, probably the windshield (haven't gotten there yet)
- and... big leaks from the windows.
Sounds like a typical problem list we all have!

Quote:
Which brings me to my questions (by the way, it took me over 3 hours to scrape and clean only 1 window frame)

1- I bought 41' of window trim seal, 23' of vertical lip and 88' of fuzzy glass channel from VTS. Is the fuzzy glass supposed to go all the way down in the channel (the channels are in a kind of an ''H'' shape with the ''H'' being open in the middle). I'm afraid to push it past the lips and all the way down?
If I understand your question correctly the answer is no. The window frame where the fuzzy schlegel sits has small lips about 1/2" down from the top of the window frame. The fuzzy schlegel should only go down to that point. In other words push down only until the fuzzy schlegel is half way down.

Quote:
2- There are holes at the bottom of the track in which the sliding windows go into. Is that normal? Because that is where the water was coming in.
From 74 to 76 the window frames are different than from about 80 and later. Since your's is a 76 you will likely have those holes in the two front cockpit windows but I don't believe they should be present in the side bedroom/kitchen sliding windows. In the cockpit there is no insulation in the walls and that area is open down to the ground. So the holes allow any water in the track to drain straight down to the ground.

However the side windows shouldn't have the holes because there is insulation in the walls and as you've found out, plywood creates a barrier so water can't drain to the ground.

From what I can determine the slots on the outside of the side windows are all that's available to allow water to drain outside.

With all that being said, I recently replaced the fuzzy schlegel on the side window of my 74 Argosy and after a heavy rain I had water running down the wall inside the coach. One thing I didn't do was to cut the fuzzy schlegel away from the drain slots. That's something I need to do to see if that will stop the water from draining inside.

Quote:
3- I understand the weep holes on the external side of the outer channel. But the ones on the internal side let the water in and then down trough the before mentioned holes into the wall???
As mentioned above the side windows should not have those holes. I wonder if some PO put those holes there after seeing them in the cockpit windows thinking that would help the water drain out.

I have a bunch of 74 to 76 side windows and I don't believe any of them have those holes although I will do a quick check this weekend to be sure.

Brad
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:37 PM   #3
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1976 28' Argosy 28
Chambly , Quebec
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 19
OH MY GOD!

I have rarely seen such poor engineering. I made a drawing for myself to help me understand how the window frame is made and how it is meant to work.

I know my drawing is of poor quality but it still shines compared to the window frame ingineering. As you can see, channel 1 (in which lies the fixed window and the window trim seal) is higher than the other channels.

It does not show in my drawing, but the weep holes fall underneath the trim seal and fuzzy glass gasket. So, if water gets in by the weep holes (or any other way) and falls in channel 2, there is no way for that water to get back out since channel 1 is higher.

Engineering meeting at Airstream sometime in the early 70's:
- About the window frame, has anyone noticed that channel 1 is higher than the others. Thus unable to expel water outside, but only inside. Shouldn't we revise our design?
- There, there young one, that is blasphemy. Instead we shall drill holes at the bottom of channel 2.
- But Sir. the water will drain inside the wall and onto the floor, that isn't right.
- Again with your blasphemous thoughts young one. We will not revise our design. The holes will be covered by the fuzzy seal and the water will drain inside the wall. All of this will be invisible to the eye, perfect!

I don't see how, but I must find a way to reverse engineer this terrible mistake.

Dan
P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm from Québec and french speaking.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:00 PM   #4
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1976 28' Argosy 28
Chambly , Quebec
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Here's an idea to you, retired airstream moron engineer,

As you can see, channel 1 is lower than the others and weep hole 1 is lower than weep hole 2 (all in accordance with the simple law of gravity).

Thank you

Sorry, stupidities like this drive me crazy.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:02 PM   #5
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1976 28' Argosy 28
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I'm so mad I forgot to thank Brad for his super quick reply.

Thanks
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:51 PM   #6
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Argosy window seals

Danklein, your English, and your ability to communicate great satire and humor is excellent.

I once worked with a group of engineers from France, that only spoke French. My French is terrible.

The only way I was able to reliably communicate with those gentlemen was with mathematics and schematic diagrams. Embarrassing for me, but they were quite patient with me.

This was on a support trip to an oil pipeline burying barge in the Gulf of Mexico. My joke about that trip was that the engineers were from France, and spoke no English. The riggers and welders were from Texas and Louisiana, and they spoke no English as well...at least none that I could easily understand.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:31 AM   #7
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1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
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I get your point but the internal weep hole should be higher than the external weep hole so that water exits externally 'first'. It is only if the external weep holes get blocked that the level of the internal weep hole comes into play, and the height of that channel doesn't matter at all, it is the level of the holes.
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:34 PM   #8
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1976 28' Argosy 28
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I managed to finish one side window late last night. Window and fuzzy seals took 10 minutes but the vertical trim took over 2 hours.

We had very heavy rain early this morning for about 2 hours and then sunshine. I went in the Argosy during the downpoor and the finished window was leaking as much as the others.

From what I read, the vertical trim makes everyone curse (a lot). So be it but it's bigger than the original thus it does go in the groove of the fixed window (with som heavy cursing) but the H shaped lip is about 1/16 away as you can see in the picture. Also the blade part of the vertical trim is about 1/8 away from the slidding window as you can see in the picures with my finger.

The window trim is wavy in the corners. Is there any way to remedy that?

It looks good and the window is now slidding thightly but it still leaks and it does not close fully. It will slide easily up to the vertical part of the fuzzy but impossible to push it in the fuzzy.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:37 AM   #9
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1976 28' Argosy 28
Chambly , Quebec
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I'm taking a break from the windows (still trying to decide how I'm going to finalise this with the weep holes and the holes in the tracks). The interior is
a mess, not very encouraging.

But, I have sealed the entry point of the antenna cable on the roof (I have taken the cable out). Since I had to scrape the old sealant away, I thought I might as well scrape the paint also. Same for my vista views which I will leave unpainted.

So back to the paint remover and heat gun, working on my patience.
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