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Old 12-07-2016, 10:18 AM   #1
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1971 29' Ambassador
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Argosy MH Captains Chairs

I am looking for any info about replacing the driver/passenger captains chairs in a '78 Argosy motorhome, both seats and pedestals. I am not having much luck finding replacement pedestals, and the stock pedestals do not work correctly anymore. I am pretty sure the passenger side pedestal mechanism is missing some parts, neither will lock in the forward position or telescope up and down, and they both (desperately) need new upholstery. The stock round drivers side post is 8 1/2" above the floor with the seat and base removed, and the passenger side post is a full 12" tall. There are built in boxes on both side walls right next to the seats so they have to elevate above these to be able to swivel. The tallest pedestal I have found is 10". I am assuming that is 10" to the base of the seat platform so it would be at least 2", probably 3" too low for the drivers side? I guess if I could find parts and get the stock seats working right that would be cheaper and maybe easier but I haven't found any replacement parts for these older pedestals so I am leaning towards going all new. While I would love integrated seat belts and shoulder harnesses, I am assuming I will have to keep the seat belts mounted to the floor for insurance purposes. The '78 argosy has no stock shoulder harness. Anyone have any advice?
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:29 AM   #2
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Loads on seats in my rebuild thread (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f310...125552-10.html).
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:51 PM   #3
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"I already bought 3 sets of matching seat mounts, 3.5", 7" (the ones we are using) and 10" high in case we want to change later - it's a ten bolt per seat change if we want to lower or raise."

Where did you get the new pedestals? I haven't been able to find any with the same floor bolt pattern. I did find a pedestal with a large enough plate that I could drill new holes, but not sure if I should do that? From my measurements it looks like my existing pedestal bolts are 8" across and 7 3/4" deep.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:14 PM   #4
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1975 20' Argosy 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhedd View Post
"I already bought 3 sets of matching seat mounts, 3.5", 7" (the ones we are using) and 10" high in case we want to change later - it's a ten bolt per seat change if we want to lower or raise."

Where did you get the new pedestals? I haven't been able to find any with the same floor bolt pattern. I did find a pedestal with a large enough plate that I could drill new holes, but not sure if I should do that? From my measurements it looks like my existing pedestal bolts are 8" across and 7 3/4" deep.
In the end we used the 10" plus a 2.5" adapter plate, but the pedestals were standard RV pedestals. Bella had a totally new frame/sub-floor and even the seats that were fitted when we got her were standard hole centers. So the floor must have been built to take them.

If you look through the Peanut thread Gregg gives details of the original seat mounts used on the '77. The ones in Peanut have a raise lower mechanism (sprung retaining pin gets disengaged/re-engaged to move) but the drivers side and passenger side are different.

The same seats as used in Bella are going into Peanut, and they are also the same as Brad has to go in his MH.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:25 PM   #5
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Currently Peanut's seat pedestals are out and sitting on the shop floor, well actually they are sitting on the kitchen floor but that's irrelevant!, if you need measurements of parts or need parts made there's a machinist down the street that could probably reproduce some of them.

As for switching to different pedestals and seats personally that's what I would do. I see nothing wrong with having to redrill holes for different bolt patterns. In my Argosy I actually welded some new 1"x2" tubing in place under the floor due to the different bolt patterns using the new pedestals.

I basically used the same pedestals that Martin used in Bella. The main difference is I've added electric seat pedestals in place of the spacers that Martin used. The actual height of the seats stayed about the same.

Getting the right combination of parts to clear the boxes on the sides of the cockpit walls does make it tough to find the right combination. Neither Bella or my Argosy have those boxes which definitely simplified things.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:27 PM   #6
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Martin, now that you've made a number of trips in Bella do you find the seats to be comfortable for long trips?


Brad
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Martin, now that you've made a number of trips in Bella do you find the seats to be comfortable for long trips?


Brad
Seat height is great with regard the pedals. If there was one thing I would like to change it would be, I drive with the adjustable column tilted up, ie the steering wheel is also horizontal (to make room for my stomach...but that is another story!). I tend to drive with left arm on the wooden trim under the window (very comfortable) and holding the wheel with my right hand. In that position my right forearm lays around the wheel rim (I know, I know, two hands on the wheel and all that!). On 500mile days my right arm is slightly too high and my shoulder aches in the evening.

That said I badly dislocated my right shoulder in a cycling accident about 15years ago, and have rotator cuff damage, so the ache could just be that complaining from being in the same position for 8-10 hours. But I would like to try 1" higher seat/moved a little forward to give the same distance to the pedals - currently the seat is moved back to its limit. In order to do that I would need a new adapter made, so it can wait a while.
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin300662 View Post
Seat height is great with regard the pedals. If there was one thing I would like to change it would be, I drive with the adjustable column tilted up, ie the steering wheel is also horizontal (to make room for my stomach...but that is another story!). I tend to drive with left arm on the wooden trim under the window (very comfortable) and holding the wheel with my right hand. In that position my right forearm lays around the wheel rim (I know, I know, two hands on the wheel and all that!). On 500mile days my right arm is slightly too high and my shoulder aches in the evening.

That said I badly dislocated my right shoulder in a cycling accident about 15years ago, and have rotator cuff damage, so the ache could just be that complaining from being in the same position for 8-10 hours. But I would like to try 1" higher seat/moved a little forward to give the same distance to the pedals - currently the seat is moved back to its limit. In order to do that I would need a new adapter made, so it can wait a while.
D'oh! I just realized you may have meant are the seats comfortable, not is the seating position comfortable.....100% yes. For fold-up seats they are very supportive and no numbness from seating on them.
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Old 12-07-2016, 04:19 PM   #9
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D'oh! I just realized you may have meant are the seats comfortable, not is the seating position comfortable.....100% yes. For fold-up seats they are very supportive and no numbness from seating on them.
Yep, my real question was the seats being comfortable Glad to hear they are.

One reason I opted for the electric seat pedestals was to try and avoid any seating discomfort due to seat angles, height, etc. Someday I actually hope to find out if they make a difference!

Brad
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Currently Peanut's seat pedestals are out and sitting on the shop floor, well actually they are sitting on the kitchen floor but that's irrelevant!, if you need measurements of parts or need parts made there's a machinist down the street that could probably reproduce some of them.

As for switching to different pedestals and seats personally that's what I would do. I see nothing wrong with having to redrill holes for different bolt patterns. In my Argosy I actually welded some new 1"x2" tubing in place under the floor due to the different bolt patterns using the new pedestals.

I basically used the same pedestals that Martin used in Bella. The main difference is I've added electric seat pedestals in place of the spacers that Martin used. The actual height of the seats stayed about the same.

Getting the right combination of parts to clear the boxes on the sides of the cockpit walls does make it tough to find the right combination. Neither Bella or my Argosy have those boxes which definitely simplified things.
I am leaning towards new seats and pedestals. The existing hardware doesn't make sense to me. I am not sure what is missing. I am pretty sure both seats were height adjustable, they both have the same control arms. But I think the passenger side is missing the spring and insert parts. I took the drivers side apart and nearly broke my arm when the spring came flying out! The passengers side pedestal doesn't have any of the same innards as the drives side, it's just a post that drops down into another post. The passenger pedestal post also does not have the little hole that the drivers side uses to lock into the forward position (which doesn't work). I am not sure what parts I would need made if I even wanted to pursue that route.

I realized upon closer inspection that it is not necessary to elevate the seats above the side boxes to swivel. The stock seats are about 20 1/2" wide which is just narrow enough to clear the boxes when swiveling. Any wider though and no dice. So I think I'll get the pedestals I found with a 9 X 9 base and drill new holes. Now I just need to find some seats that will fit the space. I like your seats Martin but I don't think the Mrs would be satisfied with them.
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:13 PM   #11
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I bought seats from what is now called Shop4Seats. There has been name changes and split offs but it appears everything still comes out of the same factory. I ordered extras including high resilience foam, lumbar support, adjustable arm rests and seat warmers.

I have driven about 65,000 miles including 16,000 miles on a 4 month trip and 9,000 miles on a 3 month trip and find them to be very comfortable seats. I don't know what they would be like without the extras. I did add the electric 6 way base on the drivers but kept the standard base on the passenger side.

I was never overly pleased with the customer service on the phone but I had a problem with one of the arm rests and happened to be in the area
so I stopped by. The factory guys were great. Took the arm rest off, took it in the shop and in about 15 minutes it was repaired and back on the chair,
no questions ask, no receipt or paperwork. This was about 3 years after I bought the chairs. By the way I got both chairs built and shipped for about 1/2 the cost quoted to reupholster my original chairs.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:27 AM   #12
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Dan, could you share which model seat you bought? I think my next large purchase is going to be new seats. Im going to get a quote on new foam and material to match my reupholstered couch but Im pretty sure new seats would make more sense. Thanks
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:01 PM   #13
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Mike the seats I bought were called De Leon which has a contrasting color insert panel and beading on the seams. I had mine made without the beading and in a single color. There was no extra charge for doing this.

Shop4Seats actually makes the chairs and has a factory location. Some of the other outfits are websites and contract the work out so check everything out before you order as the web sites all show the same stuff.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:15 PM   #14
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Thank you Dan, good info. Id like to save mine but its hard to justify the cost. We'll see what the the upholstery shop quotes. Now that youve put some miles on those seats do you feel that the electric base was worth the cost?
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:56 PM   #15
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It's hard for me to say Mike. I tend to set it where I like it and leave it alone. Some people say it helps to change seat position every few hours. Maybe it's been too many miles in a Model T, it is what it is so deal with it and move on. Maybe I'm not the guy to ask about seats.

I do like to sit low so I cut the base down to get the seat lower. The electric base allows the wife to raise it to a comfortable position for her. By the way you can't rotate the electric base like the manual base. Other than the high resilience foam I think the most important add on was the lumbar support. I have the manual version that has a rubber ball on a short tube that inflates a bladder in the back rest. As the miles roll on, I add a few more pumps on the ball. That really makes a big difference for me. The wife likes the seat warmer but I rarely turn mine on.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:57 PM   #16
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Youve answered what I was wondering about. Im the same way in the "set it and forget it" idea. I doubt that I would fiddle with the seat position once I find my own sweet spot. Thanks again.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:25 PM   #17
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Thank you Dan, good info. Id like to save mine but its hard to justify the cost. We'll see what the the upholstery shop quotes. Now that youve put some miles on those seats do you feel that the electric base was worth the cost?
Mike, doesn't your's have the electric seat base? I thought all Classics came with them. I really like the ones I had in the 310, the only issue was with the switches themselves.

I liked them well enough I'm installing them in my Argosy.

Brad
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:49 AM   #18
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Nope, both sides are manual Brad. Now mine is an 82 so maybe they changed that after the first year.
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Old 12-09-2016, 05:44 AM   #19
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Mike, here are the 6 way power pedestals that I bought for my Argosy. Factory RV Surplus seems to have the lowest prices around. I also bought new 7-1/8" pedestals as well which put the Sto-N-Go seats at just the right height.

Same as you I'm now wondering if power pedestals were options in the early Classics?


Brad
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:11 AM   #20
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Im thinking we may take a trip over to Elkhart, IN in the spring and get a hands on look at some of the suppliers. Its a pretty quick trip from here in central IL. Ive been wanting to head over there anyway and just take a look at the "RV CAPITAL OF THE WORLD". Its my understanding there is at least one real RV SURPLUS supplier over there. Might be fun.
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