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74Argosy24MH · 06-22-2003, 12:12 AM

Wow, what a trip!! Any idea if it is major or something a little easier (and cheaper)? I would be looking for a name , but it would have 4 letters in it.

John

ViewRVs · 06-22-2003, 07:44 AM

At this point, it's only speculation on the engine. Edie indicated Brett wasn't sure what was wrong. I'm sure that Brett will sign on tonight and give us all the details.

Keep in mind there is no telling what the last few years of this MH's life looked like. If it sat idle for a few years, it wil take a while to work out the bugs. I imagine going across country over the mountains puts quite a strain on it. That's tough enough on a MH that's being used regularly.

Chas · 06-22-2003, 10:57 AM

Bummer,

I feel bad for him! Feel almost like passing the collection plate around to help him with his troubles!! If not for his wife being back in Dallas I would say leave the beast on the side of the road and cut his losses! Not trying to be too negative but this is exactly the reason I have a trailer, too much to deal with on a MH.

Chas

thenewkid64 · 06-22-2003, 04:19 PM

Whew,

Fred thanks for keeping the forum up to date!

I am still in Dallas as of this post, having trouble getting on a flight to waterlogged Fla.

Shari, We bypassed Denver on the new tollway. Nice drive, but a bit pricy. On a deadline and all that.

Chas, I tried to route thru Austin for a visti to PeterH, but could not figure out a way to make the time.

Fred relaed all of the pertinent info, but while in Dallas, I changed out the carrier bearing, as it was maknig a fair amount of noise and the vibration was setting my teeth on edge.

The waterheater was a goner as soon as we got home, I knew it had a burner leak, I just did not plan on it popping and flooding the coach.

The spare parts were not used (Yet) I carried a starter, water pump, and alternator. All of the hoses and belts were new. And I have a spare set of belts.

Once we were fixed in Idaho, and the people ther are great , thanks FrankR!, we had smooth saling for close to 1000 miles. That is if you do not count Salt Lake city, but once we were thru that I had no more stumbling, just poor economy until I got back under 3000 feet. I think the general rule is a 4% loss in power for each 1000 feet of elevation in a carburator fed engine. So at 7000 feet I had lost 28% of my available power

.
The biggest issue was the engine wanting to flood out when stopping at a rest stop, or to look at some of the scenery.

Leaving Dallas Saturday AM, all is well, all temps in range, genset and roof ac running. We were 45 miles from our jumping off point and the govenor in the transmission failed again

This time it failed while the cruise control was engaged and I do not know what the engine rpms were when I shut the cruise down. Even then it only revved the engine for a second or two.

I limped off the interstate and there was a minor ticking sound coming from the engine, I assumed it was a diffrent kind of govenor failure and found a parts store. They did not have one, but there was a boneyard a couple of miles down the road. I babied it (max 20 MPH in first gear) there, I had driven it for close to 20 miles in Idaho just like this, to the boneward. The ticking noise is a bit loder now, but again I assumed it was the govenor. I was able to get an new/used one and installed it at the boneyard. Note to self, do not do this again on a hot driveline.

Driving off I now have all three gears again, but the ticking is getting louder. At this point I knew it was a engine issue and shut it down.

The mechanics will look at it tommrow, but I thought that if you have thrown a rod, you lose most of your oil pressure

Mine stayed right were it normally was. Also I am looking for a bit of advice on why the transmission is eating govenors. I can get them cheaply enough but I think I should get more than 1K out of one.

74Argosy24MH · 06-22-2003, 06:23 PM

When you say tick I think valve train. That goes along with over revving. Bent pushrod, broken valve spring or collapsed lifter. If it is a rod you should be able to hear it louder from beneath and it will be a knock and twice as fast as a lifter because the cam runs at half engine speed. Valve train will be louder from above with the doghouse cover up. Valve train also won't affect oil pressure unless you blow the lifter out of the bore.

What happens to the governor when it goes?

John

Chas · 06-22-2003, 06:29 PM

Exactly what I was thinking, John,

It could also be something worse like a bent valve due to the valves floating. Not as bad as a spun or broken rod but not exactly an easy fix. I am hoping it is just a collapsed lifter that will eventually pump back up.

Chas

thenewkid64 · 06-23-2003, 11:06 AM

John,

When the govenor fails it is due to the nylon end gear bing chewed down to the point that it no longer engages the worm gear in the transmission.

The new ones slide right in, I will try to get a picture of the last one I took out.

Thanks for the advice, I was hoping it was valve train. I figured iI was in for a head, or valve job at the worse. I will await the mechanic's assessment.

Edie · 06-23-2003, 11:37 AM

Thanks to everyone for your support and encouragement. All in all, I am still thrilled with the coach. What do we expect after the poor thing sat un-used for at least 2 years? And it had it's major collapse close to my sisters and their kids so that I have a place to stay

That's a good thing. Oh yeah, and there's the antique auction every Thursday night here.

I just got off the phone with the mechanic. He said, "We haven't taken the engine apart, but you need a new motor. I recommend a Jasper rebuilt motor that comes with an 18-month 75,000 mile nationwide warranty. Parts and labor, including $300 for extra incidentals, will be about $7,000. It will take about three weeks, since we have two more in ahead of you."

thenewkid64 · 06-23-2003, 11:57 AM

IF I was wealthy, I would spring for it, but that seems like a one size fits all kind of fix.

Motor trouble=new motor, don't bother fixing it, just replace it. yeah right!

Options?

59toaster · 06-23-2003, 12:29 PM

Ticking and tranny problems could be a bad flex plate. It could walk the the guts back and forth in the tranny and get them out of alignment. It would also cause a noise that sounds just like a knocking rod.

**Stefrobrts** · 06-23-2003, 12:39 PM

The engines, ticking, we haven't bothered to look at it yet, must need a new motor - hmmm..Sounds to me like you need a new mechanic.

thenewkid64 · 06-23-2003, 01:17 PM

Stephanie,

Working on that right now.

59,

Would the noise be there even in park? It seems to make the noise in relation to engine speed, not vehicle speed. Also could a bad flex plate cause the govenor failures? Both of the guys I spoke with said they had not ever heard of one failing in that few miles.

Thanks,

john hd · 06-23-2003, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thenewkid64
IF I was wealthy, I would spring for it, but that seems like a one size fits all kind of fix.

Motor trouble=new motor, don't bother fixing it, just replace it. yeah right!

Options?

brett,

pull the valve covers and at least take a look, could be something as stupid as a cracked rocker arm!

john

59toaster · 06-23-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thenewkid64
Stephanie,

Working on that right now.

59,

Would the noise be there even in park? It seems to make the noise in relation to engine speed, not vehicle speed. Also could a bad flex plate cause the govenor failures? Both of the guys I spoke with said they had not ever heard of one failing in that few miles.

Thanks,

Yep. Flex plate is bolted directly to the crank. The Torq converter bolts to it. They do fail and they make bad sounding noises. My buddy has had to fail on his service van in about 20k. GM had some plates that they made with to thin of a gage and they were failing prematurly.

You can remove the dust sheild on the tranny. Look in the sheild and the bell housing and see if you see a lot of metalic dust. That's a sign it's failed. Hard to get a good look at it with the transmission in there but see if you can see anything. You can un bolt the converter from the plate and slide it towards the transmission about a 1/2 inch. Then you can push on the flex plate some and see if you can spot any cracks up where it bolts to the crank.

74Argosy24MH · 06-23-2003, 02:48 PM

Easier yet if it is a flex plate. Put it in gear with the brakes on the noise will stop, it takes the slop up and no noise.

John

thenewkid64 · 06-23-2003, 03:02 PM

In gear with the brakes applied and I still have the noise. So it must be in the engine.

I wish I was with the MH to do some stuff, like pulling the valve cover, but I am in FLA supposedly

at work, so I cannot. The mechanic that is going to look tonight will have access to my tools and he said he may pull the valve cover to check on simple stuff.

59toaster · 06-23-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thenewkid64
In gear with the brakes applied and I still have the noise. So it must be in the engine.

I wish I was with the MH to do some stuff, like pulling the valve cover, but I am in FLA supposedly at work, so I cannot. The mechanic that is going to look tonight will have access to my tools and he said he may pull the valve cover to check on simple stuff.

Well sometimes the brake trick doesn't make it stop. Most of the time it does. I'm looking at this from a what could answer both issues your having. THe knocking noise a cracked flex plate will make is sometimes the nub on the Torque converter bouncing against the back of the crank shaft. It's a bad thing and can trash the thrust bearings. Now bad thrust breaings is usualy accompanied by bad oil pressure. Were talking 5 psi at idle , hot.

454 are also prone to craking exhaust manifolds and and blowing exhaust manifold gaskets. Don't mistake a exhaust leak for something more serious.

Edie · 06-23-2003, 04:33 PM

Here is a photo I took when we were broken down in Idaho. Isn't it a beautiful spot?

thenewkid64 · 06-23-2003, 05:49 PM

Well the second opinon is in and the second mechanic also said "new engine". I will talk with him on the phone tommrow. Edie said the knock was MUCH louder with the engine cover removed. So we now need to move it to the new guy so he can pull covers and drop the pan to be sure it needs the whole thing.

john hd · 06-23-2003, 06:09 PM

brett,

sorry to hear the bad news...

here is a link for what it is worth......

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/PartsAcc...74LEngine.html

if you go to the bottom of the page there is another link for the 502 ram jett option, it's under "crate engines".

john