Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-07-2017, 01:43 PM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
77 Argosy 28 motor rebuild

Sadly this isn't how I wanted to start my Argosy adventures but sometimes we can't help the cards we're dealt. I was on my way home from the seller's house with the moho and something let go. I had to get a tow and it's now in my driveway with repairs underway. Luckily I know a guy (my dad) who is a career GM mechanic and I have a flat driveway with the moho nuzzled right up to the door of my garage. A 5 minute diagnosis kind of points to it just being a timing chain but we'll know more shortly. Kind of excited to revitalize the old girl. I wasn't going to start interior renovations until I had some time to use it but it looks like there's no time like the present so out the interior will go also. Wrenching on the Airstream with your best pal isn't so bad anyway.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20171104_154903.jpg
Views:	259
Size:	243.3 KB
ID:	298587   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20171105_101142_638.jpg
Views:	308
Size:	666.2 KB
ID:	298588  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20171107_141904_398.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	148.2 KB
ID:	298589   Click image for larger version

Name:	20171107_135920.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	219.7 KB
ID:	298590  

Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 02:30 PM   #2
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
You're not the first buyer not to make it home, and you won't be the last. Just off the top of my head I could name at least four if not five or six guys that have had major issues trying to get an Argosy or a Classic home in one piece. My friend John had issues with both his Classic and Argosy, just barely making it home with both.

If you had posted earlier, the gang would have told you to check a host of things before setting out, but that's neither here or there.

Be very nice to your Dad as these queens of the road are a real be-atch to work on. The radiators sometimes have to come out the bottom on the Argosy's.

FYI Change your fuel lines pronto, if they haven't been changed. The reason is the old fuel lines will corrode with all the Ethanol and additives in modern fuel and eventually crack open; if that happens anywhere close to that very hot big engine of yours and it will go up in flames faster than you can say OMG. I know of at least seven Argosy/Classic coach fires in the last five years. One poor fellow just finished a beautiful restoration, both inside and out; when on his maiden first drive with his mother behind him, she noticed smoke coming out from underneath; she phoned him and he pulled over; by the time he exited the coach and got his fire extinguisher, it was too late. POOF, gone.

Goodluck and here's hoping it is an easy fix.
Cheers
Tony

PS If you're going to renovate your interior, do yourself a favour and don't throw anything out until the project is done. I have lost count of how many interior projects are started with people throwing everything away....only to find out that they needed this or that, for a template; or they could have re-vinyled everything like I did and been cheaper and faster way to go. KEEP EVERYTHING!
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 03:47 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Not a pleasant way to start ownership

It sounds like you've got excellent help which should make a huge difference. As Tony mentioned don't throw ANYTHING away until you're done! Speaking from experience here

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 04:19 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
Interesting view in the grill
Looks like a new oil cooler?
Also is that a 2" hitch receiver on top of the front bumper?
It is not hard to pull the radiator. If you are lucky, you will be able to swing the A/C condenser up and out of the way on a ratchet strap to avoid releasing the Freon.
While you have the radiator out, check it for blockage.
And as long as you can get to the front of the motor, see if you need a new water pump & hoses. It is cheaper to do it now than to take it all apart again later/
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 05:07 PM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
1969 31' Sovereign
1982 28' Airstream 280
Edmonton , Alberta
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 190
Good luck with your project! Hope tow bill wasn't bad. Advice get a good AMA/ aaa coverage. I had a $3200 tow bill on my maiden voyage after using a tow two days earlier in South Dakota they wouldn't help at all the second round
Swillv8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 06:01 PM   #6
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
Tow bill was Zero, I luckily thought ahead to get the roadside assistance added to my insurance for 20 bucks. Saved me 450 bucks.

The hitch is mounted right to the bumper. Not really strong I suppose but enough for a bike rack. Not sure about that cooler, Haven't really traced the lines.

My dad is crazy enough to be excited for a challenge such as this so I think I'm lucky there. That and he owes me pretty big as I've given him a place to stay as he and my mother finalize their divorce....

Since I don't have much choice at this point and I have the time, money, space, tools and ability(my father) I am really seriously considering an engine replacement. Even if it is "just" the timing chain, we can't really thoroughly test the engine until it's all back together. Not that a new engine won't fail but I'm looking to keep this for a while and something reliable would be awesome. I've seen multiple different swaps but I wonder if there is a tried and true formula for getting an engine in this baby that's ready for the long haul. A Jasper engine sounds nice as it carry's a 3 year warranty. Any combination I'm overlooking? Must have modifications? I saw someone did a larger oil pan and built the oil system to carry a lot more oil. I can afford the parts now but I might not be able to afford the parts/labor if I'm in a far away state at some point in the future.

Any and all tips or references would be great. Using the search is great but there's endless sifting through the threads for small bits of info. If anyone knows where I should look for sure I would appreciate that advice, thanks!
Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 08:32 PM   #7
Dazed and Confused
 
Isuzusweet's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,805
If your Dad is up to a challenge I would highly recommend you consider this swap.....you'll get better mpg's, reliability, performance, ease of use and better parts supply. There are probably a bunch more pro's that I can't think of right now.

PM this guy for info and tips. He figures it took 700 man hours in total to do with all the wiring; but well worth it. He's doing 70+ with a 310. You'll probably have the first and only 100 mph Argosy.

There also is someone that did swap a Cummins into an Argosy but the powertrain would set you back a lot more dollars and you'd spend more in maintenance.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...-a-163471.html

Cheers
Tony
__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram and may all your campaigns be successful.

“It’s a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it’s a depression when you lose your own.” "Harry S Truman"
Isuzusweet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2017, 11:03 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
bibbs's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista , California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
My advice to your dad, if you pull the engine jack the beast up and drop engine and tranny to the floor. Put plywood down first and use some pipes to to roll it out to the side. Did it on two argosy's worked very well.
bibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2017, 12:32 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibbs View Post
My advice to your dad, if you pull the engine jack the beast up and drop engine and tranny to the floor. Put plywood down first and use some pipes to to roll it out to the side. Did it on two argosy's worked very well.
I have never had the pleasure of pulling a engine form a P30 chassis, (yet) but if you have a engine hoist, I would think pulling the radiator and bring it right out the front.
Jacking the whole beast high enough to clear the engine seems scary
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2017, 12:52 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibbs View Post
My advice to your dad, if you pull the engine jack the beast up and drop engine and tranny to the floor. Put plywood down first and use some pipes to to roll it out to the side. Did it on two argosy's worked very well.
Pictures?
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2017, 03:57 PM   #11
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
Got a little closer to the goal today. Radiator came out and tomorrow I'll tackle everything mounted on the engine. I ran the casting numbers and found that it's a Gen V crate engine as best as I can tell. So with that knowledge I'm hoping my dad's estimation of the timing chain failure is accurate. If that's the case I might just satisfy myself with replacing that and to keep on running it. I would like to hear more about dropping it out the bottom. Sounds interesting!
Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
bibbs's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista , California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
Sorry I don't have pictures. It was a few years ago when I did them. Not that scary,I built a strong jack stand for the entire front end and had wood blocks for extra safety. Very convenient to be able to get at the engine through the wheel wells. I used a cherry picker through the front to lift and drop the engine.
bibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 12:00 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibbs View Post
Sorry I don't have pictures. It was a few years ago when I did them. Not that scary,I built a strong jack stand for the entire front end and had wood blocks for extra safety. Very convenient to be able to get at the engine through the wheel wells. I used a cherry picker through the front to lift and drop the engine.
I'm assuming what you did was to remove the front suspension saddle (comes out complete with suspension and wheels) while using your engine hoist to hold the motor in place. Once the saddle was out of the way I assume you lowered the engine using some sort of jack from underneath? Does that sound about right?

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 05:53 PM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
Got to the possible root of the issue today. Crank gear busted and lead to the failure. Or that's the best I can see so far. Working on removing the oil pan next. It looks like I need to life the engine to achieve that. Has anyone squeezed it out any other way? Once out I think I read in some thread that I can't find that someone put a larger oil pan on. Does anyone know if there's a specific oil pan that fits and has a larger capacity? I also did a simple test on my fan and I think it's not working. Not really sure though, let it sit in from of my salamander for a while but the fan shaft never seemed to lock up. I'm just looking for all the upgrades I can do to make it a little more reliable. I also had to have a little fun and pull my awning out to pretend I was sipping cocktails and not wrenching. Can't wait to make this baby reliable and ready for long trips off grid!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20171109_171535.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	360.1 KB
ID:	298705   Click image for larger version

Name:	20171108_130912.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	420.5 KB
ID:	298706  

Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 12:45 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
I would think that if you have a good oil cooler and it is keeping up with the heat load, then carrying extra oil in the pan is not of much use. It just adds to the vehicle weight and reduces ground clearance.
For the broken gear, I dont know what the 454 has for valve clearance to the top of the piston, but you may want to pull the heads to see if there is any damage on the top side. It does sound like it is time for a rebuild or a swap. A gear should not fail like that without some underlying cause.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 10:15 AM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
I think you're right, I just keep trying to delay what seems like inevitable and trying to research what might be the best solution for both engine removal and what to replace it with. The 8.1 and Allison swap seems a bit outside my ability as do the diesel swaps. A rebuild seems possible but I'm now concerned about it's longevity. It seems like these things just eat engines. All of this before I ever even used it once! just puts you in a generally grumpy mood. Now that I have removed everything in front of the engine it seems like the best option is to pull it out the front. I guess I'll head out to buy a hoist and keep unbolting things!
Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 10:26 AM   #17
Keen amature
 
martin300662's Avatar

 
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield , Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,533
To be brutally honest, 90% of break downs are before you get a chance to use them!

Take a look at Tap's thread in the Classic motorhome section, or the amount of shops Bella went through, jezz even Peanut was given a clean bill of health by a shop in Florida and I was told it only needed new tires to be able to drive to Brad's.

Any that have not been in routine use will swallow a whole load of time/money to get them reusable, even if they look great
martin300662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 10:39 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
You should be able to beg borrow or rent a hoist, save some big bucks and garage space.
As for the Airstream/Argosies eating engines, I have not found that in any of mine.
My 84 did come with a rebuilt motor from GM Goodwrench. One of the original owners threw a rod at 44K miles in 1990. The bill for parts and labor was about $3600. I have just over 100K on it now and it runs fine.
Before you toss the engine oil, send it in to have in analyzed for what is in it.
I use Blackstone Labs to do my oil and tranny fluid.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 01:05 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
bibbs's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1973 21' Globetrotter
1975 26' Argosy 26
Vista , California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 589
No I did nor remove the saddle I made a plate to bolt on where the carburetor fits with a U bolt coming out the top and put the hook of the cherry picker directly onto the U bolt lifted the engine, removed the engine mounts rolled the hoist back as I lowered it down. I did remove the transmission cross brace and drive shaft. With the coach Jacked up, and the radiator removed, the hoist will fit right through to the engine. It really was not that hard. I would look forward to helping someone do it again
bibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2017, 02:16 PM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Bloomington , IL
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 43
I emptied my oil into the pan right after I emptied my coolant. I still have the oil but I'm not sure if it would be a good sample. I might try to rent or borrow a lift when I get to that point. I need to carve off some more of the stuff on the front of the engine but I really think I'm just about there. Bibbs, did you take the transmission right on out with the engine then? did it fit over the front bumper? It looks like there really is plenty of room once I get everything carved off the front. It wouldn't be too bad to work on it if it wasn't 30 degrees. I'm dreaming of motors now that I know I'll have an option to put something else in there. I'm looking at it a couple different ways. I haven't even owned it a week so whatever this costs me will be amortized over the entire length of time I own the coach(which i hope to be a while) and the other way is that I haven't even owned it a week so I'd just like to get something simple and cheap put back in and be able to use the dang thing.
Scottorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'74 Argosy 20' Motorhome restoration/rebuild bkahler Argosy Motorhomes 2112 08-05-2023 07:43 AM
Airstream Classic 350 LE Motor Home 1992 Orig. Owner SAirstream Classic 350 LE Motor eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 11-28-2010 10:00 PM
selling AO Smith 105 motor to replace original Armstrong blower motor eubank Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 1 09-07-2010 10:09 AM
Argosy rebuild list bkahler Argosy Motorhomes 2 07-25-2008 01:21 PM
How would you rebuild the motor if you had to? Impala SS Guy Airstream Motorhome Forums 8 01-18-2008 07:56 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.