'74 Argosy 20' Motorhome restoration/rebuild

[Smartstream]

Thanks Brad, the base function of this forum is to share information. Trying to figure out an orderly way to accomplish this is an another issue.

Telmas are quite common in Europe as auxiliary braking systems are required on buses, fire trucks, ambulances and many other classes of vehicles.

A Telma system is basically a large electro-magnet acting on rotating discs attached to the drive shaft. They are dead silent and very powerful compared to exhaust brakes and Jake brakes. They are also very expensive.

[split window]

Hi all
This brake system I have in my 250 from the German Company "Kloft".
It is very good working. I use it in every Situation, most the first and second step.
I use the regular brake maybe only 30%. That give me more livetime for all the parts.

Have a look




One Time I need an emergency stop.
I use the "retarder " with full power.
Without that, I will have an accident.
And downhill is it very helpfull.!

For ne a very good investment.

Best regards Peter

[Isuzusweet]

Yes, us diesel guys can be **** disturbers.

This is what I pulled off the Kloft site:

P5.1

Maximum braking torque 1200 Nm
Total vehicle weight 6-10 T
Air gap 1.5 - 1.7 Mm
Total weight of the retarder 129 Kg
Weight of the stator 89 Kg
Weight of the rotors 40 Kg
Installation length 275 Mm
Max. number of revolutions 5000 Rpm
tension 24 V
Power consumption +/- 2% 111 A
Max. Transmission torque 11500 Nm
Max. "Briefly 15500 Nm
Massiveness of rotors 1.72 Kgm²

There is a PK.1 and PK version for those under this weight (I wonder if I could get away with a PK system)......looks very interesting........

@Split window (Peter), any problems installing the system into the P30 chassis? How far back from the transmission does the unit mount? I wonder if it could take the place of my carrier bearing?

Cheers
Tony

[split window]

The Retarder was installed before I buy my Streamer.
It is a Typ 5.1-1141(12V)
The "Kardan" in front is 780mm
The back is 1450mm
Total cost was in 2013
4850,-€uro
The compleet Installation is made by "Kloft"... The Streamer was one day at the Workshop of Kloft..
Peter

[Isuzusweet]

Thanks Peter.......and now back to Brad!

Cheers
Tony

[Smartstream]

Tony the unit can replace your center bearing. The rotors and center shaft rotate on some substantial bearings inside the framework that mounts the coils and basically the entire unit. It mounts on brackets between the frame rails and somewhere in the middle of the drive shaft. If you have a long wheelbase with a 3 piece driveshaft then pick one of the u-joints where nothing is in the way. The trick is to mount it at a height and angle so that you can make all the drive shaft angles happy. Telma, and I'm sure Kloft does also, has a chart you fill out with all the distances and angles of your vehicle and they run it through their program and they tell you where and at what angle to mount the unit. You then have to cut your drive shafts to fit. The electrical hookup is very simple. The fun part is moving enough stuff around to make a hole big enough to fit the beast. You can see on Peter's rig where they cut and installed the offsets in the tail pipes to fit the brake.

They do make units that bolt directly to the rear of the trans or front of the differential which makes the installation easier however I don't know if anything is available for our older rigs.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Tony the unit can replace your center bearing. The rotors and center shaft rotate on some substantial bearings inside the framework that mounts the coils and basically the entire unit. It mounts on brackets between the frame rails and somewhere in the middle of the drive shaft. If you have a long wheelbase with a 3 piece driveshaft then pick one of the u-joints where nothing is in the way. The trick is to mount it at a height and angle so that you can make all the drive shaft angles happy. Telma, and I'm sure Kloft does also, has a chart you fill out with all the distances and angles of your vehicle and they run it through their program and they tell you where and at what angle to mount the unit. You then have to cut your drive shafts to fit. The electrical hookup is very simple. The fun part is moving enough stuff around to make a hole big enough to fit the beast. You can see on Peter's rig where they cut and installed the offsets in the tail pipes to fit the brake.

They do make units that bolt directly to the rear of the trans or front of the differential which makes the installation easier however I don't know if anything is available for our older rigs.

If I were to install one, that's where I'd want it installed as keeping the heat away from the transmission and differential would be paramount and installing it on the transmission with my parking brake could be problematic.
I like the idea of this type of braking but still unsure that my 65 amp alternator would be enough to manage. Getting a bigger alternator with the vacuum pump on the back side could be a problem.

Thanks Dan, I'm still seriously considering it.

Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I like the idea of this type of braking but still unsure that my 65 amp alternator would be enough to manage. Getting a bigger alternator with the vacuum pump on the back side could be a problem.

Tony,

Upgrade your alternator to a CS-144 like I have on my Argosy and then buy a stand-a-lone vacuum pump. This pump is similar, if not the same as the one used on my 2000 F250 diesel pickup.

Brad

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Tony,

Upgrade your alternator to a CS-144 like I have on my Argosy and then buy a stand-a-lone vacuum pump. This pump is similar, if not the same as the one used on my 2000 F250 diesel pickup.

Brad

Brad to the rescue....I do need a higher alternator as I kinda install a pretty wicked sound system and 200 amp is piece of mind, however the stand alone pump link didn't work. It took me to an Onan genset list of links and manuals. If you can redo the link to the pump I'd appreciated.


Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Brad to the rescue....I do need a higher alternator as I kinda install a pretty wicked sound system and 200 amp is piece of mind, however the stand alone pump link didn't work. It took me to an Onan genset list of links and manuals. If you can redo the link to the pump I'd appreciated.


Cheers
Tony

Tony, I have no idea how I screwed up the link

It is a Ford electric vacuum pump that is used on their diesel pickups.

On my Argosy I'm using a CS-144 140 amp alternator. If/when you upgrade to a larger alternator remember to upgrade the feed from the alternator to the battery!

Brad

[Isuzusweet]

Got it! Thanks Brad, remember upgrade feed back to battery.

One cause for concern...my diesel drive pulley is a two belt affair that drives the alternator, are all alternator arbors the same diameter? Since my alternator could possibly be a GM unit originally, what are the chances my drive pulley would fit and not kill the alternator main bearing?

Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Got it! Thanks Brad, remember upgrade feed back to battery.

You'll probably also need to upgrade to a larger battery isolator similar to this one. The large alternator feed wire would go from the alternator to the isolator.

One cause for concern...my diesel drive pulley is a two belt affair that drives the alternator, are all alternator arbors the same diameter? Since my alternator could possibly be a GM unit originally, what are the chances my drive pulley would fit and not kill the alternator main bearing?

Cheers
Tony

You shouldn't have to much trouble finding a replacement pulley if your original one won't fit the new alternator. Hopefully you have a local alternator/starter repair shop in your area. It might not hurt to stop in and explain what you're trying to do.

[mayco]

Totally off subject here but I was wondering, so way back when, what was the motivation to switch from the 310 to your Argosy Brad? Just curious. Myself, I think the 20 footers are perhaps the "coolest" looking of all AS motorhomes. They remind me a bit of the old Dodge, short wheelbase, Tradesman van. I have always loved the looks of those. Plus, with the Argosy, you can paint it whatever color(s) you choose so that's a big plus in my eyes. I sure have seen some knockout 20 footers all painted up beautifully. I am just curious what your reasoning was to switch.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by mayco

Totally off subject here but I was wondering, so way back when, what was the motivation to switch from the 310 to your Argosy Brad? Just curious. Myself, I think the 20 footers are perhaps the "coolest" looking of all AS motorhomes. They remind me a bit of the old Dodge, short wheelbase, Tradesman van. I have always loved the looks of those. Plus, with the Argosy, you can paint it whatever color(s) you choose so that's a big plus in my eyes. I sure have seen some knockout 20 footers all painted up beautifully. I am just curious what your reasoning was to switch.

Mike, circumstances just sorta worked out such that the 310 needed to go away which left the Argosy. Personally I'm looking forward to having the Argosy done and usable. I've owned it since 2007 and have never even seen it with a radiator installed. With any luck at all that will change this weekend


Brad

[Isuzusweet]

I'm getting excited to one day read in huge caps "IT"S ALIVE"!!!!

Keep going Brad, you're getting there.

Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I'm getting excited to one day read in huge caps "IT"S ALIVE"!!!!

Keep going Brad, you're getting there.

Cheers
Tony

Trust me Tony, you don't know how much I want to type those words

I fully expect to be driving it around the neighborhood this spring. In many ways the worst is behind me, now it's just time.....lots and lots of time...


Brad

[Gregsch]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Trust me Tony, you don't know how much I want to type those words

I fully expect to be driving it around the neighborhood this spring. In many ways the worst is behind me, now it's just time.....lots and lots of time...


Brad

Mine was unusable for several years. It seemed like every time I repaired one system another would breakdown. I can vaguely remember times when I thought the work would never end. At the time the challenges seem insurmountable. Looking back now it seems like just a bump in the road. These things are soo much fun to take out and use them for what they were meant to do!
Keep the faith brother. It is soo worth the effort.

[Isuzusweet]

Yeesh! You Argosy people; whining about your problems with only 20 or 24'; insurmountable????? I have 7 to 11' more problems and others on this site up to 17' of more problems. Problems??? Mark (280) will tell you about problems.

Cheers
Tony

[bkahler]

Yep I'm a member of the whiners club and proud of it

[martin300662]

My view is, it's the same amount of trouble just squeezed into a smaller volume so everything is more difficult to get to!