'74 Argosy 20' Motorhome restoration/rebuild

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by ViewRVs

That's it! That was my solution. It just drips down the side of the coach like rain and the morning dew. Just don't forget the internal framing enhancements!

Definitely won't! I'm starting to think I might make the frame work out of wood like you and Dan did only I'll create the appropriate curves on the bandsaw. I'm hoping the Duo-Therm shows up this week so I can install it next weekend. I'm tired of continually removing things form the Argosy. It would make me feel a lot better to actually install something for a change

In some cases, the drain pans get clogged (mold, mildew, bees, etc.) and the condensation runs down the side anyways.

Our 310 seldom drains through the Airstream supplied drain tube, mainly because the pans are cracked in places so it unless the rig is perfectly level the condensate flows to the lowest point.

I just got done looking at all the pictures on your blog from the link you sent. I do like the white on top rather than black. I think it blends in better. Also I noticed that when you removed the center ceiling strip it looks like yours is held in place differently than my Argosy and the 345. I'll have to look closer tomorrow to be sure.

I've been looking at the same antenna that you installed. Does it function well and are you happy with it?

Brad

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by bkahler

That's the same drip pan that was on the 345 and is currently on the 310 and was on the Argosy. This morning I pulled the air conditioner from the roof and found that the drip pan was in horrible condition. It's busted in a variety of places and it looks like along the front and part of one side they used Liquid Nails to hold it in place That was a nightmare to get off.

Attachment 177044

I'm a little confused as to why they put the foam seal on the bottom side of the pan instead of the top side. The 345 & 310 had the seal on top. The whole installation on the Argosy just seemed to be botched.

I will however give them style points because they did use Duct Tape to help seal it

Attachment 177050



I'm not sure what was gained by using part of the drip pan. If the Carrier didn't have a condensate drain connection I don't see the benefit of cutting out part of the old pan

I bought a DuoTherm Brisk Air 13.5k air conditioner and it's my understanding all I should have to do is set the gasket in place and then set the air conditioner down on top and bolt in place from inside. The condensate just runs off the roof. Am I missing something?



Like I said above I'm confused as to why you needed the drip pan for the Carrier.

I'm not sure whether I'm going to make a wood frame or use parts of the ribs I salvaged from the 345. I've got a few days to worry about that problem.

Brad

Brad it sounds like somebody had already replaced your A/C at some time. The unit I removed had no foam gasket, it was caulked directly to the coach roof. By taking the cover off and removing the inside vent/switch panel, the guts, (compressor, evaporator, condenser and fans) lifted off leaving the drip pan. The pan had caulking/sealant built up to mate the curved roof to the flat pan. The Carrier had a gasket that seemed designed for a flat roof so that using the old part of the pan to match the new gasket was the easy way to go. I guess the drip pan was actually the bottom of the old unit so I just took the whole thing apart and cut away the base leaving the glued down center part and set the new unit on top.

If I remember correctly the drain hose connected to the part of the pan that I cut off so it was easy to connect the hose to the Carrier which does have a condensate drain.

I just made wood filler blocks to fit cross-ways at the front and rear of the opening. The opening was just far enough away from the ribs that it was squeezing the inner and outer shell together as I tightened the mounting bolts. It didn't seem to load the sides, only the front and back.

Like I said somebody had recently installed the same unit on a trailer and had a nice write up with pictures and he was happy with the results so I just followed his instructions

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Brad it sounds like somebody had already replaced your A/C at some time. The unit I removed had no foam gasket, it was caulked directly to the coach roof. By taking the cover off and removing the inside vent/switch panel, the guts, (compressor, evaporator, condenser and fans) lifted off leaving the drip pan. The pan had caulking/sealant built up to mate the curved roof to the flat pan. The Carrier had a gasket that seemed designed for a flat roof so that using the old part of the pan to match the new gasket was the easy way to go. I guess the drip pan was actually the bottom of the old unit so I just took the whole thing apart and cut away the base leaving the glued down center part and set the new unit on top.

If I remember correctly the drain hose connected to the part of the pan that I cut off so it was easy to connect the hose to the Carrier which does have a condensate drain.

I just made wood filler blocks to fit cross-ways at the front and rear of the opening. The opening was just far enough away from the ribs that it was squeezing the inner and outer shell together as I tightened the mounting bolts. It didn't seem to load the sides, only the front and back.

Like I said somebody had recently installed the same unit on a trailer and had a nice write up with pictures and he was happy with the results so I just followed his instructions

Ok, the Carrier having a condensate drain makes sense. I'm going the cheaper route and letting it run off the side of the coach

I looked closer at the ribs on the Argosy and realized they are spaced farther apart than they were on the 345. Not sure if that's because the 345 was a lot longer and needed more stiffness or if it's because the Argosy was the "cheaper" line. I believe there are only four ribs from the front to the back. The area between the air conditioner and the rear vent is about 3-1/2 to 4' and no ribs in that area. Makes it challenging to try and stay off that section while working on the roof.

Thanks for the info!

Brad

[ViewRVs]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I've been looking at the same antenna that you installed. Does it function well and are you happy with it?

Brad

Here is a forums thread on the Jack Antenna.

I have not used it much, really only for testing which went well.
Due to space considerations, I bought a USB TV tuner and we plan on using a laptop for a TV. I also run the PC audio to the stereo Aux-In to use the coach sound system. We used the USB tuner several times with some success. It allows you to use the laptop as a DVR. The start-up is much longer with the laptop. In an Argosy 20, everything has to have a place and a purpose! This is not a diesel pusher with a garage bay underneath to bring your kitchen sink along!

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by ViewRVs

.......This is not a diesel pusher with a garage bay underneath to bring your kitchen sink along!

You would think a diesel pusher would have enough room in the kitchen for the kitchen sink. Than again my shower isn't in the bathroom its in the closet and with airstream's lay out I am happy it isn't out back!

[kdenault]

Thank you, bkahler, for such an inspiring post. I purchased my '75 20' ft Argosy Moho several years ago for my mother. The plan was to gut and redo for her use. After having gutted and rebuilt a 1950 33' ft Spartan Mansion, which is now my office, I felt pretty confident with the Argosy. Several years later and now with a toddler in tow, the Argosy sits pretty much gutted and really wanting to be finished. My mother is now longer interested, so I would like to redo it and use it as another mobile office (pediatric therapist) for outings and group sessions. My husband is less than inclined (rather more focused on restoring his air-cooled VW's...OK still cool, but not an airstream!) and has been nagging me sell it.
But, we just bought a compressor to run air tools and work on our collection (1973 VW Thing, 1980 Eriba Familia, 1965 Airstream Overlander, and, of course, my Argy!). So, I hold out hope that we can start working on this little gem (a lot of work...engine may need rebuild or replacement, drive train I don't even know, some outriggers are rusted through, interior is totally gutted, dash is spaghetti, driving cabin floor pans have been partially replaced, etc) maybe this summer. Looking at its current state... it's hard to keep the faith! Keep the posts coming...I am living vicariously through you!
Kathleen

[bkahler]

Kathleen, nice to hear from you again!

Sorry to hear progress isn't as fast as you would like on the Argosy. Rebuilding one can be a real daunting task so don't give up.

I almost gave up on this one and tried to sell it this summer but then changed my mind. A forum member was interested but I'm glad he found a different one. Mine turned out to be in worse condition that I initially thought. I don't think it has as much rust as yours but it has enough issues that I would have felt bad selling it with so many hidden problems that I didn't know about.

Over the years I've found that if you start tackling the little things eventually it all gets finished. I have two lists for the Argosy, one lists the things that need to be done such as replace furnace, repair rear brakes, seal windows, etc. The second list is a list of tasks that I can do "right now" with no waiting. An item can't go on the list unless it is something that can be worked on immediately. For example right now on my Argosy I can clean the sealant above the right side bedroom window. Another item is I can remove the steering wheel so I can get access to the hacked up steering column. At the moment the list probably has 30 or 40 items on it that I could do if I walked out to the Argosy wanting to work on something. As these little tasks get done the bigger tasks start turning into smaller tasks that eventually end up on the second list. Oddly enough the second list has items added and crossed off constantly. It makes feel like I'm actually getting something done

It might seem ridiculous or over kill but it works for me. I keep my notebook handy and if something comes to mind that I can add to the list I do it. Surprisingly it allows me to plan tasks ahead of time so when I do have time to work on something I'm not sitting there trying to figure out what I should do next.

So, start making your lists and spend a little bit of time here and there and eventually it will get done.

Brad

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by ViewRVs

Here is a forums thread on the Jack Antenna.

I have not used it much, really only for testing which went well.
Due to space considerations, I bought a USB TV tuner and we plan on using a laptop for a TV. I also run the PC audio to the stereo Aux-In to use the coach sound system. We used the USB tuner several times with some success. It allows you to use the laptop as a DVR.

Fred, when you say "some success" are you referring to the USB tuner or did you have issues with the signal quality from the antenna?

The start-up is much longer with the laptop. In an Argosy 20, everything has to have a place and a purpose! This is not a diesel pusher with a garage bay underneath to bring your kitchen sink along!

As small as the 20' is I'm still amazed at how much storage space Airstream managed to pack into the little guy. Seems like I'm always finding a new storage location when I go inside the coach.

Airstream even managed to pack a kitchen sink into mine

Brad

[bkahler]

It seems like I'm always finding something new that needs to be fixed or replaced. The other day while removing the left side cockpit wall I noticed that the steering column had been hacked up.



Why would someone need to tear the steering column up like this

The only good news is I have a complete spare steering column (two actually) that I can use for parts. It's just annoying that the work list continues to grow no matter how much effort I put into fixing things.

Oh well, at least it keeps me out of trouble

Brad

[bkahler]

Since I now have gauges coming I decided I should come up with a possible dash layout. The cardboard cutout is the same pattern that I will be cutting the aluminum plate to.



The two holes at the top corners will be the dash vents similar to this one. The 2" gauges along the bottom might be spaced out a little more. I'm planning on making a temporary dash face out of 1/8" plywood so that should give me a good idea as to whether I like the arrangement or not.



I'm planning on spaces for eight 2" gauges. So far I'm thinking of installing the following:

Speedometer
Tachometer
Fuel
Water Temp
Oil Temp
Transmission Temp
Voltage
Oil Pressure
Vacuum
Air Suspension (if I install an air suspension system)

I'll have to add a couple of lights, high beam and oil and I think there is a brake warning light as well. I'm sure I'll come up with a few other items that will be added by the time I get done

Brad

[bkahler]

Just a quick note about rear axle seals. Back in August of 2008 while we still lived in Arkansas I bought over $1000 worth of front end parts and rear axle parts from O'Reillys in Arkansas. Well, between job transfers and then moving everything from Arkansas to Kentucky I never had a chance to install the rear axle seals. Well today I removed the old seals and dug the new seals out of storage and found that they were the wrong ones

They had cost $25 each so needless to say I was a little bit upset about wasting that kind of money. I figured what the heck and took the two seals and the original 2008 receipt to the local O'Reillys and was very surprised when they had no problems with me exchanging the wrong seals for the correct seals. The price for my new seals only $12.50 each. The best news is they actually refunded me the difference between what I paid for the original seals and what the new seals cost. I certainly can't complain about customer service from O'Reillys

I'm taking the two brake drums and rear hubs to a local service shop to have them remove and clean the bearings and then reassemble everything with new the new seals. With any luck the brake drums will be back on the Argosy sometime this coming week and I can put the wheels back on.

Maybe I am making a little progress

Brad

[bkahler]

Made some more progress on the Argosy this afternoon. I took the brake drums down to the local service shop and for $30 and about an hours wait they removed the bearings, cleaned & packed them and then installed the new seals. It would have taken me a lot longer because I would have struggled trying to get the large snap ring out. I don't have the proper tool for that job. That was $30 well spent.

I'm happy to say the brake drums are now in stalled. I just need to torque the axle nuts and then adjust the shoes. Once those two tasks are accomplished the rear brakes will be complete. I also managed to replace the rear brake hose as well.



All this talk about rub rails reminded me of the fact that virtually all of the rub rail end caps are missing on my Argosy. They are larger than the small rub rails on the 345 and smaller than the large rub rails. They are 1-1/4" to be exact! If anyone has a source for these things I'd sure like to know about it.



The next task was to remove the existing electrical breaker box. What a mess. I have no idea if some previous owner reworked the system or if Airstream did the work. Crude to say the least. The worst was when I realized that the ground and neutral wires were tied together. That is not the way it's supposed to be. I'm glad I decided to rewire things. The other surprising thing I found is appears there is only one 120 romex cable going to the breaker box. Apparently the Argosy only had one circuit originally. I'm going to have to figure out some way to separate things a little better.

I guess my 6.5kv Onan generator might be a little overkill



The last task of the day was also the hardest. I spent close to an hour and a half trying to get this one screw out of the dash cover plate. There are two of these 3/8" flathead screws in the dash. The first one only took about 30 minutes to remove. This one was just a bear from the get go. Removing the nut and lock washer wasn't to bad but it was stuck in place so I had to break it free using a pry bar from below. Once it popped free I then had to figure out how to get it out from under the windshield gasket. Well after a lot of cursing, twisting and turning I finally managed to get it out. Now I just have to figure out how to get the aluminum plate out from under the windshield gasket. I bet I have spent 5 hours so far trying to get that aluminum plate off. I know it can be done because John (Shepherd57) has done it.



A couple of other things to note. There is a fan mounted in the windshield center post. Based on how the wiring is run it sure looks like it was factory installed. The other interesting item is there is a cb antenna mounted on top of the top center running light. It also looks like it could have been factory mounted. Just a couple of more things that make this Argosy unique!

Brad

[wxbuoy]

So what I hear you saying is don't tough the dash. Paint it, cover it with carpet, whatever, just don't touch it. If the heater goes out just buy a ceramic plug plug in, that's why they put a generator in the 350.

A fricken chair is kicking my butt, I can't even imagine the dash!!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by wxbuoy

So what I hear you saying is don't tough the dash. Paint it, cover it with carpet, whatever, just don't touch it. If the heater goes out just buy a ceramic plug plug in, that's why they put a generator in the 350.

A fricken chair is kicking my butt, I can't even imagine the dash!!

No, what I'm saying is buy something that doesn't need so much work

Look at it this way, everything just gets harder the more you tear into it so enjoy the easy stuff while you can. At least that's been my experience!

[bkahler]

Nothing is ever easy. As I was dismantling the dash from the Argosy I found that all of the a/c louvers were so brittle they broke when trying to remove them Of course that meant I now had to find replacements.

I've been searching for months trying to find louvers that would fit in the existing rectangular openings without success. I finally found one that was advertised as being the same basic length but was listed as 3/8" wider. I decided it was worth a try so I ordered one. Sure enough it would fit the same width that I currently have but I will need to enlarge the openings by 3/8" to make them fit. But, there is always a bump in the road. The new louvers were for 2" hose and the Argosy uses 2-1/2" hose

At this point I decided it would be worth the effort to try and make one good louver out of the old one and the new one.



Using the Multi-Tool I cut the backs off of each of the louvers. Of course what I found on the new one didn't exactly make me happy. It turns out it was originally designed for 2-1/2" hose, but the supplier glued a 2" adapter over the opening

Anyway as you can see in the pictures once I glue the two pieces together I'll have a louver that will work just fine in the dash. It's just frustrating to have to go to the extra work of modifying a new louver to make it work. Oh well...

The other thing I got done was to rebuild one of the two wiper motor assemblies I got from the 345. Both of the Argosy wiper assemblies were a mess. The pivot shafts were broken and parts were missing. Since the 345 wiper motors are at least 12 years newer than the ones in the Argosy I opted to use those instead. Only problem was one of them had a bent pivot shaft due to the wreck it suffered. Thanks to Smartstream's posting of the supplier for those parts I was able to order a new pivot assembly. Tonight I got the pivot assembly installed so I'm now ready to install the wiper motor assemblies.



Little by little it's getting done

Brad

[bkahler]

Got a bunch of odd ball stuff done today. Didn't really complete anything but did some more demolition work inside and a little outside.

Inside I finally removed the microwave hanging under the overhead bin by the sink. That was a royal pain to remove. The four screws that the microwave was hanging from were about 2-1/2" long and I had to use one of those little right angle screw drivers that I had to flip end for end every quarter turn. Took FOREVER But the microwave is now out and will be scrapped. I'm guessing it was the original microwave based on how it was installed.



Next up was to remove the rest of the piping and wiring in the compartment under the couch/bed at the left rear. Here's a before picture. Notice how the copper piping is attached to the city water port.



The wood floor looks a whole lot worse than it really is. I tested it in a lot of places and it seems pretty solid. Finally something going my way

Sometime in its past a PO must have scraped the left rear corner of coach right were the city water connection box was located. Whoever did the repairs did a horrible job. Apparently the replacement part wasn't shaped like the original and they did a hack job to get it to work. The copper piping inside was to rigid to allow the new city water port was to big and it stuck out of the wall on the outside. so some enterprising PO used bondo to make it look better



They had a real near miss while installing the replacement port. When the drilled the hole for the rivet they just skimmed the 120vac romex cable that is inside the wall.



I will be replacing all of the copper plumbing with PEX. I've already bought a new city water connection and will be installing it as soon as I can figure out how to smooth the aluminum skin in that area.

Another lucky break for me today when I cut the hose going from the water tank to the water pump. I thought the tank was empty but I guess not. Fortunately it was below freezing today (and the last few as well) and the water in the hose was frozen! Saved me from have a wet mess on the floor. for the time being I've elevated the hose higher than the tank and opened the drain valve beside the tank. Hopefully the drain isn't plugged.



Also did some more work on the front of the engine, finishing up the power steering pump brackets and installing a CS-144 alternator. I still have a little more work to do on the A/C compressor brackets. I'm not happy with the angle of the compressor pulley in relation to the crank pulley. Not sure what I did wrong or if that's just how it fits. I'll work on that more tomorrow.

Brad

[wxbuoy]

You did get allot done!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by wxbuoy

You did get allot done!

Kinda sorta. It still seems like I'm mostly ripping out instead of putting back

Today I just kinda poked around a little tinkering with a bunch of small things. It's just been to cold here to really feel like doing much of anything so I've just been kinda lazy the last few days.

Brad

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Kinda sorta. It still seems like I'm mostly ripping out instead of putting back

Yeah, I know the feeling! I have that pit in my stomach as I look around inside thinking "What the heck have I gotten myself into!"

That and what on earth was Airstream thinking when they structurally covered things you would want to get at (i.e. door hinge nuts, dead bolt, fuse box, etc)

[bkahler]

Some of the poking around I did involved getting a peek behind the electrical control panel in the overhead bin. After reading about Fred's problems with mice chewing on wires in his Argosy I was a little concerned about mine. Fortunately it would seem the little critters didn't bother any this wiring. I really haven't seen any evidence that mice have chewed on anything. I've definitely seen a LOT of signs of mice but no real damage.



Here are a couple of pictures of the cooling fan that I removed from the generator compartment yesterday. Kinda cool looking and oddly enough it was made in Yugoslavia!



I don't know if its 120vac or 12vdc. For that matter I don't even know if it's anygood. One of these days I'll spend a little time tinkering with it. I have no plans to re-use it but it is sort of neat looking

Oh yeah, here's a picture of the under bed electrical/water compartment after having removed everything. I plan on putting one or two AGM batteries, breaker panel and the water pump in this area.



Also finished up the mounting modifications for installation of the 124A CS-144 alternator. Should give me more than enough power for a little 20' motorhome!

Brad