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Old 04-15-2015, 07:59 AM   #57
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Yes, it works fairly well, but I did have a little hiccup I had to fix on my installation.
My manual jack is not the type demonstrated in the video with a "flip over" crank. Mine is a bevel-geared type with a non-flip handle.
This makes it so that the triangular plate which bolts to the jack itself will not fit on TOP..but must be slid up from the BOTTOM of the jack. NO problem, actually, but I'm a bit anal about things like this and I wanted the plate on top of the jack bracket holding the mount bolts.
So I used a chop saw and cut one "ear" off the jack-e-up plate, fitted it to the tongue jack, then MIG welded the plate back intact. This allows the jack to lift up on the plate with more authority. (Otherwise, with the plate mounted beneath the jack's bracket the jack's mounting bolts would be the only thing lifting the trailer A-frame weight.... not really a problem, but not a "purists" technique.
If you aren't prepared to chop-and-weld... don't let that deter you...it's still a fine solution either way you mount it. I'm keeping it! (Cost was $50 at Camper World.)

Now that I've seen/done it.... I think I can make a simpler device on my own using nothing more than a few plates welded to the A-frame to make "slots" for the jack mounting "ears" to rotate into, and no mod at all to the jack.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:01 AM   #58
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The Jack E up is an interesting idea for lighter/smaller trailer. While it could be modified to work with an electric jack I think it would prove inconvenient.

Lets go back to the original question. There are 2 consideration in the placement of the ball and how it effects things.

In the case of the TV the ball mounting distance to the rear of the TV wants to be as short as possible. That is because the distance from the ball to the rear axle effects how the tongue weight effects the TV, simple application of the laws governing a lever. This shorter distance also reduces the "hammering effect" of the TV ride on the trailer.

In the case of the trailer the ball mounting distance to the center of the trailer axles want to be as long as possible. That is because that distance in this case reduces the "hammering effect of the TV and improves the towing characteristics. Surprising as it may seam to some the longer a trailer is the easier it is to control.

That said if you are are not considering a new tailgate you might consider extending the trailer tongue enough to clear. While that short distance will not provide noticeable handling result it will not negatively effect things as some have implied. Look at the dimensions of a Bull Dog or Quick Bite couple keeping in mind that the jack has to remain at it's current location.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:14 AM   #59
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The Jack E up is an interesting idea for lighter/smaller trailer. While it could be modified to work with an electric jack I think it would prove inconvenient.

Lets go back to the original question. There are 2 consideration in the placement of the ball and how it effects things. Then there is the original consideration of the manufacture. Keep it as cheap as possible, the hell with the other guys needs.

In the case of the TV the ball mounting distance to the rear of the TV wants to be as short as possible. That is because the distance from the ball to the rear axle effects how the tongue weight effects the TV, simple application of the laws governing a lever. This shorter distance also reduces the "hammering effect" of the TV ride on the trailer.

In the case of the trailer the ball mounting distance to the center of the trailer axles want to be as long as possible. That is because that distance in this case reduces the "hammering effect of the TV and improves the towing characteristics. Surprising as it may seam to some the longer a trailer is the easier it is to control.

That said if you are are not considering a new tailgate you might consider extending the trailer tongue enough to clear. While that short distance will not provide noticeable handling result it will not negatively effect things as some have implied. Look at the dimensions of a Bull Dog or Quick Bite couple keeping in mind that the jack has to remain at it's current location.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:35 AM   #60
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TAILGATE NOT OPENING ????

I ran into this upon installing my Anderson Hitch. The ball shank provided apparently was an inch or so shorter than the one on my former WD hitch and it would not allow my tailgate to open. At my request Anderson made one for me about 1.5" longer. Any changes in the physics of towing have not been noticeable and all has been good.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:07 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
The Jack E up is an interesting idea for lighter/smaller trailer. While it could be modified to work with an electric jack I think it would prove inconvenient.

Lets go back to the original question. There are 2 consideration in the placement of the ball ....
Well, ...that WASN'T "the original question".... (The original question was not about relocating the ball hitch..it was about the tailgate hitting the jack.) ... we digress...
... The Jack-E-Up has proven to be an excellent solution now on many trips. I no longer have to concern myself with the wife dropping the tailgate on the jack and damaging it, nor do I have to be too concerned about someone easily disconnecting my AS from the truck to steal it.
I did indeed take a few small pieces of steel and create "slots" for my other trailer and make a similar solution for my other trailer to simply "rotate" the jack into those slots. The solution is so simple I wish I"d thought of it a long time ago.
As for re-locating the ball... there's yet another concern on that: The distance from the trailer axle to the hitch is critical in backing and making tight turns (either backing OR forwarding) because the angle/distance of the trailer tongue can affect whether or not your TowVehicle rear bumper contacts the trailer tongue in a protracted tight turn. Your LPG bottle covers and any other stored items on the trailer tongue can hit the rear of the TV and then you've got potential for expensive damage to both.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:48 AM   #62
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Relocating the ball by extending the shank on the hitch, and thus moving the ball, is the common solution to the tailgate hitting the jack.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:53 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Relocating the ball by extending the shank on the hitch, and thus moving the ball, is the common solution to the tailgate hitting the jack.
Sorry solution, as already described.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:14 PM   #64
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I don't understand this obsession with rear overhang to wheelbase ratio. I understand the lower the ratio, the better for stability, but the difference when using a shorter vs a longer shank is really negligable sometimes.

I ran some numbers on a Ford Expedition EL (numbers come from Ford's website at http://www.ford.com/suvs/expedition/...ions/view-all/).

Wheelbase: 131"
Rear overhang: 51.1"

I am going to consider 2 different scenarios: 1) using a shank that adds 10" to rear overhang, and 2) using a longer shank that adds 12" to rear overhang

So, total overhang in these 2 cases would be 61.1" (51.1" + 10) and 63.1" (51.1 + 12)

Rear overhang to wheelbase ratio for these 2 cases would be 0.466 (61.1/131) and 0.481 (63.1/131), with lower rear overhang to wheelbase ratio being better for stability.

As you see the difference between these 2 scenarios is 0.015. If your combo goes from fully stable to completely unstable with such a minor change in this ratio, I'd say your vehicle is marginal to start with. I have personally towed with different shank lengths and did not notice any difference in stability. I would still use the shortest shank possible. I think the role of this ratio is towing stability is exaggerated. Its important but maybe not as important as some state.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:08 PM   #65
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Think of the distance from hitch ball to truck rear axle as a lever. When trailer yaw force is placed on the side of the hitch ball, that lever pivots on the truck's rear axle and transmits yaw force forward to the truck's steering axle.

The longer the lever (distance from hitch ball to truck rear axle) the greater the yaw force transmitted forward to the truck's steering axle. It's as simple as that.

That is an ongoing problem with bumper-pull travel trailers, and the reason Hensley invented the pivot point projection hitch many years ago to eliminate the ball-to-truck rear axle lever and thereby eliminate trailer yaw forces leveraged forward.

After two other hitches we bought a Hensley/ProPride style hitch and the rock solid stability that comes with it. The hitch design places the trailer hitch ball about 12" further back from the truck (without increasing yaw force leveraged to the steering axle) so opening clearance of the truck's tail gate while hitched comes as a bonus.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:40 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
I don't understand this obsession with rear overhang to wheelbase ratio. I understand the lower the ratio, the better for stability, but the difference when using a shorter vs a longer shank is really negligable sometimes.

I ran some numbers on a Ford Expedition EL (numbers come from Ford's website at http://www.ford.com/suvs/expedition/...ions/view-all/).

Wheelbase: 131"
Rear overhang: 51.1"

I am going to consider 2 different scenarios: 1) using a shank that adds 10" to rear overhang, and 2) using a longer shank that adds 12" to rear overhang

So, total overhang in these 2 cases would be 61.1" (51.1" + 10) and 63.1" (51.1 + 12)

Rear overhang to wheelbase ratio for these 2 cases would be 0.466 (61.1/131) and 0.481 (63.1/131), with lower rear overhang to wheelbase ratio being better for stability.

As you see the difference between these 2 scenarios is 0.015. If your combo goes from fully stable to completely unstable with such a minor change in this ratio, I'd say your vehicle is marginal to start with. I have personally towed with different shank lengths and did not notice any difference in stability. I would still use the shortest shank possible. I think the role of this ratio is towing stability is exaggerated. Its important but maybe not as important as some state.

Once you've driven a rig where all is optimized, you'll not forget it. Same for better suspension on that Avion; rather, a comparable Airstream against it.
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