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Old 06-06-2019, 12:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
I don't keep meticulous records that far back but it sticks in my head that the 2005 22 FB CCD LISTED at about $33K

Infamous for frames breaking and OSB floor and rear rot due to no sealant at the bumper... So some quality issues have been worked on, not all of the improvements are cosmetic.

But that's still a lot of inflation. What did a 2005 F-250 gasser retail for then... and now?
To really put it into perspective, In 1966 my goal was to earn $1000 a month, and be in deep clover.


The NADA guide shows an original list of $42k. That’s $55k corrected for inflation.

However, prices have definitely risen faster than overall inflation.
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:50 AM   #22
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Yeah if I had to do it over again the 22FB Caravel would be my choice. After seeing Colonial’s walk thru this morning and realizing it is a foot wider, that did it for me. Unfortunately we were up against a hard break from our pop up as it was no longer habitable.

1. A foot wider!
2. Ducted air, that ceiling unit is unbearably loud.
3. Upgraded windows
4. Rock guards (necessitated by extra width)
5. Real leveling jacks.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:04 AM   #23
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Not quite

Quote:
Originally Posted by keweenawbee View Post
Yeah if I had to do it over again the 22FB Caravel would be my choice. After seeing Colonial’s walk thru this morning and realizing it is a foot wider, that did it for me. Unfortunately we were up against a hard break from our pop up as it was no longer habitable.

1. A foot wider!
.
More like 9" I think.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BambiTex View Post
More like 9" I think.
Talking about the Bambi 22FB width are you? It is better but not enough to give us a walk abound bed. The wider Bambi is going to create problems for those who don't have extended TV mirrors and they will induce more air turbulence.

The new version of AS 22FB is nice but lacks a lot of new inducements to buy. Now the Caravel is a whole new animal and has a new price point. It, as I said before, is an inducement for Bambi owners to 'move up' to a new price point rig.

Just my thoughts: All AS rigs are very expensive. They are better made but have their own issues. And still --- they use 3rd party suppliers to equip them.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:17 PM   #25
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Ok so you get a foot wider unit, a fancy shower door and a ventahood..but:
you loose counter space with the long stove top (usable only as a stove)
double sink (guess the 2018's had that) but I love my 2016 as the stove had a flat cover and so did the sink. The sink was ok but the faucet was troublesome. I replaced the faucet and that solved my problem.
you loose that nice "full window" over the sink" for two smaller windows
I'm guessing from "comments" that you loose the "propane" element of the frig. Is that right?
I've continued to "upgrade" my 2016 every spring. I don't seen anything in the Caravel that would induce a trade from what I have. The size fits us perfectly. Unless, I would trade for something like the "International Series 25-28 feet" anything close to the Caravel would be a "downgrade".
Considering the big increase in price I would guess that the resale value of the 22FB would hold it's own or increase slightly for folks that don't want to pay an "arm and leg" for the Caravel.
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Old 06-08-2019, 03:03 PM   #26
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RPatrick16, the upgrade is gonna cost ++$17K and it now weighs more than some folks TV can safely tow. Just not gonna work for me.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:08 PM   #27
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I just bought my 2019 22fb last year and love it dearly. I have been upgrading stuff like changing the table/ 3" lift/ awning light / Power Jack/ 2 golf cart batteries etc... The only thing I really wish I had that I can't add is the ducted ac. If I was doing it over again I'd probably get the caravel but for now I'll stick with my bambi. My next AS will probably be a 25-26 footer, but not anytime soon.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:49 PM   #28
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if/when we replace ours, the only one we like if the FC23FB

we dont need a separate living room
this model is the only other one with dual sinks

the width, space around the bed and the better ac are the items we want
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:54 AM   #29
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All good points. We built our shop to store a 22’ International model, which then disappeared and became a 23’. Ironically after we finally purchase the Airstream, a wider bodied 22’ comes back to the market the next model year.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:09 PM   #30
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I’m not impressed, especially with the all electric refrigerators. Seems to me it will really deplete the batteries unless you have shore power. Well, time for someone to break out the Yeti again-like I had to when I owned the Basecamp, that fridge never did work right. Love my 2018 16’ Bambi!
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:00 AM   #31
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Glad we bought our fc 19 before they discontinued

Not impressed with the new Bambi or Caravel. We have a 2017 FC 19, & did so specifically bc it was the smallest model I could get all the options I wanted which included an oven. Now, you have to buy a 23' to get an oven. Further, why would anyone want a fridge that only worked on ac/dc? Why wouldn't Airstream put in a 3 way? Now, you're even more dependent on either shore power or draining your batteries even faster. Our goal is to be as self sufficient as possible- and having a smaller trailer lets us go places many others can't. I think airstream misses the boat on the new models, just as they do with the basecamp- supposed to be off road capable, but then they put in a microwave to cook on? Makes no sense. As to the question of trade in value of late model fc19's, I think they will end up highly prized since they are better outfitted than either the Bambi or Caravel.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertF View Post
A good summary. A few other items:

all Airstream windows (not Hehr like most windows on Sport models)
22FB is 8' wide, compared to 7'3.25" of 22FB Sport
aluminum step
Sunbrella awning fabric instead of vinyl?

Some of the differences are very attractive, although not nearly enough to justify a trade.
The HEHR windows are bullet-proof. The don't swing out too much to hit you in the head and require stitches like the AS. They allow a lot of nice airflow at the roll of the roller crank. I think they may be the best solution for an AS.

I'm not a fan of the AS windows. Of course we have one at the front of the 22FB but its location prevents me from running into it (due to the LP tank). And they are expensive to replace. Just my opine.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:49 PM   #33
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The HEHR windows are bullet-proof.
I guess it left a bad taste in my mouth that at the end of my trip from the dealer - home to upper Michigan Lake Superior I found that my forward port side window had come out of it's rail-hinge (that really is all that it is...a channel acting as a hinge) was non functional and one side of the window was hanging out of it. I just had to force it in with my hands and it has worked ever since, but I was not impressed with that mechanism. Upon further review I guess it is quite the design with the single rotary activator and that spring, but it's just hard to get out of my mind (along with the door being wholly way out of alignment).
I am surprised though that they've reverted to a non-3 way fridge in the Caravel, and my wife agrees that the loss of counter space with the new non-recessed stove top would make prep very difficult.
In the end I do not think the extra $20k is out of line for the increased width, height, ducted AC, rock guards, and other interior and exterior appearance upgrades.
We're gonna make due with what we have however
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:46 PM   #34
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I am disappointed in the new floor plans. They all sleep 4 and it seems they have missed a market for young families that know their growing children won’t want to share a table bed for long.

I was hoping at least one would have the lounge table combo or a bunk over the corner bed like previous Bambi’s.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:12 AM   #35
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I was interested in the AC-DC only Danfoss Compressor refrigerators, I've heard great things about them. It's hard to find much about power consumption especially since it will vary widely based on the temp outside, the temp the fridge is set at, how well is the installation insulated and how often the door is opened. The article linked below is the best one I found and covers the basic pros and cons compared to a 2 or 3-way absorption fridge.

http://www.truckcamperadventure.com/...nd-a-few-tips/

This is the authors personal experience with a 3.7 cubic ft. Dometic fridge (comparable to the Nova Kool in the new Bambis):
Quote:
Although the Danfoss compressor is much more efficient running on 12 volt power than the ammonia absorption type, it still consumes a considerable amount of amperage during a 24 hour day. The consumption rate is typically 60 amp hours a day, which breaks down to 2.5 amps or 30 watts per hour. What this means is that your RV will require a minimum of two 12 volt batteries (about 200 amp hours) and a effective way to keep them charged, either a 200 watt solar power system or a generator. Personally, I’ve found that having a 340 watt solar power system and a 220 amp hour battery bank is more than large enough to run my compressor refrigerator and meet all of our other electrical needs. However, if you boondock for extended periods of time in cold, predominantly overcast areas like the Pacific Northwest then having a generator as a backup to a solar power system or as the primary means of keeping your batteries topped off will probably be needed.
For our personal use, that would not work. We camp mainly in northeast state campgrounds, no hookups, spotty sunshine and no generators allowed (a big part of the reason we camp at them!). Most times we are lucky to get direct sun for more than an hour or two a day and occasionally we end up in sites with virtually no sun. If we were using 60 amp hours a day we would be dead in no time flat.

With the absorption fridge, even in the shady spots or if it rains for a day or two, we have not had a problem as long as we are conservative with electric use and put the solar suitcase out to capture what sunlight we can.

I am looking forward to some real world reports and I'm sure we'll get those as soon as the trailers start rolling off the line.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:34 AM   #36
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Thanks Smithcreek for the info on the Danfoss compressor.

My grandmother had a Servel absorption refrigerator back in the 1950s. Ran on nat gas flame. Only electricity needed was the interior light.

Our AS Dometic is a 3-way. When we stop or boon dock and have no ac, it works flawlessly. I am not a fan of any compressor system and wish we could buy a Servel for our house. But alas. Compressors rule the day.

This is purely a personal lament...
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:18 PM   #37
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New Bambis

What’s involved with having to repack the bearings on the Sport/Bambi models every 5000(?) miles? What’s the cost of completing this maintenance task?

Also, the never-lune hubs on the Caravel and the Never-adjust brakes; what sort of real benefit are these?

Just trying to wrap my head around ALL the differences between these models, not just the ducted vs central air, and other interior cosmetic upgrades.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:55 AM   #38
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I have followed this thread and need to update my comments forthwith.

Someone asked how my 2018 22FB Sport (have to use full description now or the reader will not know which size) pulled with my 2012 V6 4Runner. It pulls fabulously on prairies and in the Rockies. Gearing is the most important element in the mountains. I never leave it in 5th even on flat ground. Auto-stick is what I use.

I liked that someone said the AS cost had inflated more than the rate of inflation. Haven’t most all vehicles? Manufacturing knows we consumers can just add months to our payments and take out larger loans to afford them. We have been duped to accept more and more and more accessories and longer and longer terms to retire the debt. It is a very dangerous precedent. If the prices collapse and the music stops, the market for said vehicles will contract leaving the world upside down. Right now AS is ‘Silver Surfing’ the wave of baby boomer retirement. They are also hoping the Gen-X will be as gullible in paying any price where camping is concerned. Time will tell.

Lastly, if I had it to do over, I would have bought a used 2017 or 18 22FB and saved a lot of money. My days of buying over inflated vehicles has ended. Too many pre-owned to choose from. And I have learned to accept that manufactures will always upgrade and update and artificially create demand in the public. Like some of you here, I’ll upgrade and remodel my AS along the way.
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