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Old 07-03-2016, 01:21 PM   #81
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This whole thread has evolved to represent one of the main issues facing western culture right now. Is globalization good or bad for whatever one desires? The reason there is so much political upheaval in the US, Europe, and other parts of the world at this point in time is due to the ways globalization is being implemented. Is there a middle road that could be a compromise for the good of everyone? I doubt it, because most seem to want it their way 100% or nearly so.

Does globalization have to occur? With the world's human population continuing to rise exponentially, and so many of the world's cultures believing procreation is the ultimate goal of living, something has to give somewhere. Therefore, enjoy your RV (Airstream or not), before the consequences of overpopulation, and self centered political decisions, force you, and perhaps your many children, to take to the hills and live in it permanently.

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Old 07-04-2016, 10:45 AM   #82
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So when we slap tariffs on imports which will be countered with tariffs on items shipped to other countries from the US, what do you think will happen to the jobs that are currently producing the 40% of auto parts that are made in the US for delivery to an assembly plant in Mexico?

I have to wonder how many of those that oppose trade with other countries have stopped shopping at Walmart or Harbor Freight or other low cost stores.

In 1990 US Exports were $535 Billion in 2014 they had risen to $2,345 Billion. Do you really want to go back?

Feb 2016 report
"U.S. auto exports hit a record for the third year in a row in 2014 as strong demand for U.S. made cars and sport-utility vehicles, especially in the Middle East and Asia, offset concerns about a strengthening dollar. The trend also was fueled by foreign-owned U.S. auto plants built in the U.S. Midwest and South that are now exporting more vehicles to other markets. Car makers including Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. that opened factories here to be closer to U.S. customers are now exporting too.
Last year, about 2.1 million new cars and trucks were built in the U.S. and shipped to other countries, the first time auto exports topped 2 million. The total is an 8% increase over 2013 and a 73% rise from 2004,"


So ya lets just shut down all this bad international trade. Are there problems? Yes but slamming the door is not a realistic solution to a complex problem.

More jobs have been created in renewable energy in last few years than lost in coal. Maybe if Congress offered more than lip service to creating good paying jobs than simply voting no on every proposal or even refusing to hold votes we might be better off.
I don't know where you get your facts but my 2012 F-150 includes parts that were made in Mexico.
Every job created in the renewable industry is subsidized by us the taxpayers. Renewable energy industry will never be viable on a larger scale needed and would disappear overnight without taxpayer support.
And lastly where the real problem lies with trade is that our politicians along with Crony capitalist use it to buy influence and the American worker gets the shaft. Our over all trade balance with the word is " OUT OF BALANCE" against our jobs.
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Old 07-04-2016, 11:07 AM   #83
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Indeed, American producers are HOBBLED by policy where they are held to standards and costs that offshore producers are not.

Further, even so called American made vehicles contain copious amounts of Chinese parts.

Where did our jobs go to? We exported them along with our prosperity.


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I don't know where you get your facts but my 2012 F-150 includes parts that were made in Mexico.

Every job created in the renewable industry is subsidized by us the taxpayers. Renewable energy industry will never be viable on a larger scale needed and would disappear overnight without taxpayer support.

And lastly where the real problem lies with trade is that our politicians along with Crony capitalist use it to buy influence and the American worker gets the shaft. Our over all trade balance with the word is " OUT OF BALANCE" against our jobs.




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Old 07-04-2016, 11:55 AM   #84
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Even when standards are met, cheap labor trumps everything else. I have a friend who was an engineer for a company that produces rental carpet cleaners. Years ago management required him to bid out motors built in China. He made sure the motors met specs and were reliable. The Chinese motor cost $68, the American equivalent was $300+.

Vespa the Italian manufacturer of premier motor scooters is a stickler for quality. They have been using Chinese built motors for years. The list goes on. There are quality things being made in China if manufacturing standards are held high.

In our relentless push to increase earnings and income, nobody considered the ramifications to to ourselves individually. The genie is out of the bottle and no one in this society is willing to pay more or make the sacrifices necessary to turn things around. Americans vote with their pocketbooks.

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:07 PM   #85
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Even when standards are met, cheap labor trumps everything else.

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Jack
I can't believe it:

a moderator turning this thread into a politcal statement.

Ken

The simpler more universal statement is money crushes everything else.
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:13 PM   #86
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Ken, 👍🏻
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:29 AM   #87
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I can't believe it:

a moderator turning this thread into a politcal statement.

Ken

The simpler more universal statement is money crushes everything else.
Gets the juices flowing, doesn't it ?
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:16 AM   #88
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I wonder how many here are willing (or able) to pay the true cost of goods manufactured in America by Americans earning a fair wage in facilities that comply with current safety and environmental standards?
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Old 07-05-2016, 11:32 AM   #89
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I wonder how many here are willing (or able) to pay the true cost of goods manufactured in America by Americans earning a fair wage in facilities that comply with current safety and environmental standards?
The problem with wondering about that is that the vast majority of those here are potentially those same workers that you speak of. So would they feel differently if they made fair wages in the jobs that would exist if jobs returned to the US and Canada?

In my opinion the real problem with the whole system is the very few extremely greedy who run the show and are not satisfied unless they live in gross opulence while occasionally throwing scraps to the rest of society who make them so obscenely rich.

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Old 07-05-2016, 12:04 PM   #90
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In my opinion the real problem with the whole system is the very few extremely greedy who run the show and are not satisfied unless they live in gross opulence while occasionally throwing scraps to the rest of society who make them so obscenely rich.

Ken
You seem to be forgetting shareholders who demand higher profits and consumers who demand lower prices. Often, those two are the same person.
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:18 PM   #91
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You seem to be forgetting shareholders who demand higher profits and consumers who demand lower prices. Often, those two are the same person.
I wasn't forgetting them. I'm one of them.

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Old 07-05-2016, 01:35 PM   #92
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Lol, while many feel unaffected by the exodus of production jobs, soon to follow are jobs in other sectors.

Finance, management, engineering, development, and even retail jobs will be swallowed up.

But in exchange we will get cheap crap, while we can afford it.

It is funny how so many see production as an outmoded concept, while those that do produce slowly and assuredly encroach and obliterate our prosperity while feeding on the corpse of what America was.

Generations to come will say that we failed them, and they will be right.


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Old 07-05-2016, 02:33 PM   #93
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Then get the population to stop demanding cheap crap and agree to pay fair prices for domestic products.
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:55 PM   #94
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Then get the population to stop demanding cheap crap and agree to pay fair prices for domestic products.
Amen!!!
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:55 PM   #95
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Then get the population to stop demanding cheap crap and agree to pay fair prices for domestic products.

I am trying...


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Old 07-06-2016, 06:07 AM   #96
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IMHO it starts with each of us. As an example, if you go to Home Depot (or wherever) to buy something and the one made in the USA is more expensive than the one made in China, will you buy the Made in USA brand?

Businesses will do what the consumer dictates! If the consumer always buys the lowest priced item the business man will try to drive down the cost. He must or he will lose sales.

I started my career as a tool and die maker and retired as a CEO, all spent in manufacturing. I have seen first hand the radical changes globalization has brought. The company where I started as a tool and die making apprentice has all of it's manufacturing now done in China. As a CEO I too have made decisions to purchase manufactured items from China knowing it would put Americans out of work. Did I want to make those decisions. Hell no! But my customer demanded continuously lower prices. Why? Because he was competing against foreign made products and if he did not keep his prices in check the consumer would ultimately buy from them.

So as long as we as a society are hooked on getting the cheapest priced product, the producers will continuously look for cheaper sources for labor and materials.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:18 AM   #97
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Curious, have the foreign made content hates posters removed ALL non 100% made content from their autos,trailers and homes? I suspect not.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:15 AM   #98
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Curious, have the foreign made content hates posters removed ALL non 100% made content from their autos,trailers and homes? I suspect not.
Of course not! That would be hard. They want things cheap, fast and easy. And the easy thing to do is blame foreigners, rather than look in the mirror.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:34 AM   #99
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Amen!!!

Common guys, blaming the population ? You cant be serious. You walk into Walmart or Target for something you need and buy what is on the shelves.
They don't have Isle "A" buy American and isle "B" buy Chinese choices. It is the greed to garner a larger piece of the market or just simply attempting to stay in business that causes this. And it can only be solved through politics.
And for all the free marketeers, yes most countries we deal with rig the deals to protect their markets and citizens.
A Grand Cherokee in Germany will set you back $ 75,000.00. The same in Japan. So please quit this bs rhetoric about free market and get real. We are in a mercantile war with China and they are winning.
They gave Boeing access to their market in exchange for their technologie. Now they began to build the first generation of short haul jets and Boeing is complaining. The same with GE.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:48 AM   #100
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I always read the "made in" label. Where there's a choice, I buy things made in USA or EU vs. stuff made in countries where people are paid pennies a day for their labor. Sadly, that choice is often not available because retailers often stock only items that generate maximum profit margin all the way down the line.

Bed Bath and Beyond is one such store. I challenge you to find anything in that place not made in China, Bangladesh, Pakistan or another country where manufacturers pay their workers pennies a day.

Definitely look in the mirror before posting to this thread again complaining about Chinese-made anything. Do you check for "made in" labels? Do those labels affect your purchase decision more than the basic price? If not, I suggest we all find something else to talk about.
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