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Old 03-03-2014, 04:57 PM   #43
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Nonsense, look in the Honda Ridgeline owners forum and you will find many of us with over 180k and not looking to rebuild anytime soon. Also look to see what engine is used in the Brickyard race.
What he said...
These engines are designed to run at higher RPM and do so for well over 400,000 miles.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:28 PM   #44
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I guess the bearings last indefinitely now. I'll have to retake my physics classes. If they last 400,000 we are all idiots for not buying them. And I am a Honda guy too. Buy a Ridgeline (the person who asked the question). I loved the way they drove, kinda was so so on the way they looked. Guess I missed the deal of the century.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:09 PM   #45
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I tried editing above again. It sounds snippish. It is not intended to be. I really was torn between the Ridgeline and the FJ and took the FJ because Honda is kinda anti off-road as in they made all sorts of voiding warranty statements. My last 6 cars have all been Hondas. I do love them. At the time we wanted a tent-camping vehicle and thought one that supported off-road stuff might be better. We love the FJ, but it kinda sucks on the highway (premium gas, small tank, and gearing). But actually rides very nice and with power out the wazoo.

As an aside, I heard they were stopping production of the Ridgeline after this year? (They said that about the FJ 3 years ago!)
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:16 PM   #46
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I noticed that some compare horsepower in TV's for towing. Personally, I could not care less about horsepower. I care more about torque when choosing a TV. Many diesels produce 80% of their torque (and more of it) at low RPM's (such as 1500 to 2000 RPM). That's why they excel at towing. Their horsepower ratings are often disappointing.

Horsepower is a theoretical metric that is computed from torque and RPM. It is usually produced at the top end of the engine's RPM range where few of us operate our engines (at least on a consistent basis). Torque is a true measurement and a better indicator of towing ability in my opinion.

Given the choice between two engines, one of which produces 150 ft/lb of torque at 2,000 RPM and 220 horsepower at 4,000 RPM and a second that generates 100 ft/lb at 2,000 RPM and 275 horsepower at 5,000 RPM, I'll take the former.

Enzo Ferrari was once quoted as saying that horsepower sold cars but torque won races. I'm not sure about racing (although I used to be a racer) but torque wins hands down in towing as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:25 AM   #47
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New gasoline engine and transmission technologies are changing some of the old rules.

My last 3 litre twin turbo inline six 3 litre gasoline engine, with direct injection, reached peak torque at 1500 rpm. It had a very broad torque plateau, as well, broader than diesels from the same manufacturer.

Combine that with a new ZF 8 speed automatic, with much lower gearing than the ZF 5 speed (4.7 vs 3.6) and torque isn't an issue.

The vehicle I am looking to purchase as a tow vehicle is available in gas or diesel. Given the local price premium for diesel fuel the gasoline engine is looking pretty good.

Jeff
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:08 PM   #48
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Torque, HP, and gearing/drive ratios can be misleading when you focus on only one of them. The interplay of the whole package together is beyond my knowledge or ability to explain. For towing, it would seem HP is the least important of the three.

I will say this...you can give yourself whiplash from a standing stop in a Ridgeline. And that's with the Bambi attached. Obviously, I'm biased. Keep in mind, it's been virtually unchanged mechanically since 2006. Rumor says a complete redesign is coming 2016(??). Unfortunately, it still won't be a full-size truck with a big V8. But to those of us who like it as is, that aint such a bad thing.

FYI, Ridge is rated right around 250/250. I forget the final drive ratio.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:10 PM   #49
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Have you gone and test drove the Equinox yet? We just finished test driving a number of vehicles rated in the 3500# range, and did not feel confident they could handle our trailer, even though it is under 3000#. We went with a Ford Flex, since it has a little more horsepower, and a 4500# towing capacity. Haven't towed with it yet.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:56 AM   #50
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Torque, HP, and gearing/drive ratios can be misleading when you focus on only one of them. The interplay of the whole package together is beyond my knowledge or ability to explain. For towing, it would seem HP is the least important of the three.

I will say this...you can give yourself whiplash from a standing stop in a Ridgeline. And that's with the Bambi attached. Obviously, I'm biased. Keep in mind, it's been virtually unchanged mechanically since 2006. Rumor says a complete redesign is coming 2016(??). Unfortunately, it still won't be a full-size truck with a big V8. But to those of us who like it as is, that aint such a bad thing.

FYI, Ridge is rated right around 250/250. I forget the final drive ratio.
Yes, indeed. Final drive is 4.38. Most don't have a clue about the Ridgeline as it's not highly advertised.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:53 AM   #51
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All good points on the new gasoline engines and transmissions and admit that we are usually talking overkill for a 16' Bambi. However, I still like the relaxed torque of the diesel engine over the gasoline engines. I have both and always prefer the diesel.

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Originally Posted by jcl View Post
...

My last 3 litre twin turbo inline six 3 litre gasoline engine, with direct injection, reached peak torque at 1500 rpm. It had a very broad torque plateau, as well, broader than diesels from the same manufacturer.

Combine that with a new ZF 8 speed automatic, with much lower gearing than the ZF 5 speed (4.7 vs 3.6) and torque isn't an issue.

The vehicle I am looking to purchase as a tow vehicle is available in gas or diesel. Given the local price premium for diesel fuel the gasoline engine is looking pretty good.

Jeff
Jeff, I think your 3.0 liter gas engine was pretty unusual to reach peak torque at 1500 RPM. Was it an airplane engine? Just joking of course but do you mind indicating what engine that is?

I'm also curious why gasoline is looking good due to diesel costs. I've done a few computations and it seems that diesel costs anywhere from 6% to 14% more depending upon where you buy it. However, my calculations for the difference in mileage from gasoline to diesel for a given platform is around 30% in favor of the diesel. I did my calculations using the gas and diesel EPA ratings for the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:35 AM   #52
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Mine was a BMW N54 installed in a 2008 535. The current version of that engine is an N55, now with a single turbo instead of two, but with dual scroll. Similar performance. The gasoline engine is upgradable from BMW with a performance tune (maintains warranty). The N55 is rated at 400 N-M from 1200-5000 rpm, with a redline of 7000 rpm. That is the flexibility I am referring to. In the 535 I had a 6 speed manual, but it was a little silly as you didn't need to shift very often.

I had an X5 previously, with the M54 gasoline engine. I have an X3 now, with the N52 gasoline engine.

If we get an X5, it will have either the N55 gasoline engine, or the N57 diesel.

I hear you on torque. The torque that will matter most to me is wheel torque though, not flywheel torque. I think the ZF 8hp transmission is a bit of a game changer there as it has much lower gearing in the first gears to allow the use of lower numerical final drive ratios for economy on the highway.

I spent my career working with diesel engines (not in light vehicles) and am familiar with them. I owned two diesels outside of North America for three years (Landrover and VW). For the X5, I am seriously considering the diesel. The trouble is, the payback period has been too high each time I have calculated it. It has ranged to 100,000 km to get to break even when considering higher purchase price of the diesel, and our local fuel purchase prices. Diesel is expensive here, but that is offset somewhat by the requirement for premium gasoline. This leaves aside my wife's lack of enthusiasm for diesel due to minor refueling issues (odor, availability) and she will be driving the vehicle as well.

I have not considered resale value in that analysis, as it appears very close. Also, I have left service costs out. Maintenance is included for four years with purchase; after that there is no clear information that one is going to be higher than the other.

BMW sold a bunch of diesel X5s over the past few years, but in the US they did it with a several thousand dollar eco credit. Without that tax credit it didn't make economic sense. They have now lowered the diesel premium to $1500 here from $4500 (we don't have tax credits).

Take a look at the 2014 X5 fuel efficiency numbers and see what you get using your fuel prices, and what the payback in miles would be on the purchase price premium. I'd be interested. Fuel price spreads (gas to diesel) vary quite a bit around North America and one issue is that if we get an X5 we would be driving it all around North America. Makes the calculations more challenging.

Jeff
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:15 AM   #53
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I'm also curious why gasoline is looking good due to diesel costs. I've done a few computations and it seems that diesel costs anywhere from 6% to 14% more depending upon where you buy it. However, my calculations for the difference in mileage from gasoline to diesel for a given platform is around 30% in favor of the diesel. I did my calculations using the gas and diesel EPA ratings for the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg.
Fun with numbers, but for what it is worth:

I used a 2014 X5, 3.0i vs 3.0 diesel. US EPA fuel efficiency numbers. Don't know how accurate they are with respect to real world, but assumed the same offset for each engine. City mileage show a 28% advantage to the diesel. Hwy mileage advantage shows a 14% advantage to the diesel.

Using Gas Buddy, average fuel prices in Kentucky, and what I can determine about your diesel prices, diesel shows a 12% premium today (over the required premium fuel, not regular). Certainly those numbers can vary.

The problem is that those figures don't pay for the purchase premium of the diesel model over the number of years I expect to own it.

So, I figure it basically comes out at a wash. That means buying which one is best to drive, to me.

Oh, and agree it doesn't matter for the 16' Bambi. Our last generation X3 would tow that fine.

Jeff
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:33 AM   #54
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This leaves aside my wife's lack of enthusiasm for diesel due to minor refueling issues (odor, availability) and she will be driving the vehicle as well.
Yes, availability is a minor issue...until you run dry in an unfamiliar city with the false assumption you could pop in to any corner market and fill up.

That's from my own (limited) experience with a diesel moving van several years ago. Perhaps it's more plentiful nowadays. If I'd known how scarce it can be when you really need it, I coulda planned accordingly.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:39 AM   #55
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I had a 1980 Volkswagen Rabbit diesel-
Sometimes it would be hard to find diesel in unfamiliar territory-
Looking for diesel was the end of that car- get off at the exit, look for fuel, don't find any, get back on-
I did a u-turn in front of a Ford LTD and it was over-
I've had gas engines since-
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:18 PM   #56
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We had the diesel Landrover and the diesel Passat when we lived in the UK. Diesel was easy enough to find there, but the pumps usually left your hands with a faint smell of diesel. Here, she has noted that not all stations have diesel (we started looking when we fill up our current vehicle) and she just wonders why we would want to bother. A small hassle, but one we don't need.
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