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Old 11-12-2009, 05:26 PM   #1
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How would you structure a new AS Club?

Many complain about the existing choices in Airstream clubs, so I'm asking those whose needs are not presently being met how they would structure a new Airstream Club that will work and prosper in the future.

CrawfordGene was my initial choice because he is a professed student of social organizations and knows what does not work. Although he does not have the time to create a new club or host an event himself, he does like to write. So in response to his remarks:

Originally posted by CrawfordGene:
. . . So we could have a Colorado Vintage Club, a SW FB Club, a No Rules Rocky Mountain Club, Left Handed Airstreamers Club, North America Weird Guys Club (Ladies Welcome), Little Bear* Drunkards Airstreamers. Pick your affinity group or your region or city. No limits. Some works, some doesn't. Gene

I asked him:

Gene:

Briefly, how would you structure the "club" to grow and prosper in today's world? What basic or general rules, if any, would apply to membership . . . events . . . affiliation . . . identification? Who would bear or cover the initial expenses for the organization and for specific occasions, like a rally? Is computer ownership a prerequisite?

I hope many others will also contribute their good ideas on how the future successful Airstream Club should be structured and run. Thank you in advance for your ideas.
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:01 PM   #2
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well this isn't EXACTLY the question i'd hoped U would post...

but somehow i'm not entirely surprised.

we've had many discussion thread on what a NEW C might be like...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...eal-20036.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ica-29521.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...lub-43687.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...nit-22293.html

and i will share that A/S solicited a formal proposal a while back FOR A NEW C...

and a small/select group provided a VERY detailed proposal to them, and it was an AWESOME blueprint.

THAT is all i'll post on that topic.
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what i HOPED this thread would be about was FIXING the wb'...

but it's not like that topic hasn't been OFTEN addressed.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...way-29054.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...club-4070.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ive-28739.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...tion-2207.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ers-21499.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ave-30841.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...oin-31422.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ack-33989.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...cci-33769.html
____________

it' is noted that this NEW thread isn't in the wb' section,

but NOT MUCH posted on the wb' or Cs in general is placed WHERE it really should be...
____________

so HERE's your solution wee' to FIXING the OLD/CURRENT wb'....

draft and take forward ONE addition to the wally rules (bylaws/constitution/articles) which states...

ALL individual membership dues (the annual mem fee)

must be SPENT at the local unit level BY the LOCAL unit and the LOCAL unit members.


read it again.

do that ONE thing and every thing else will morph as needed to follow that mandate.

i know there are plenty of "yes butts" and "what ifs" and "huhs" but think about it.

there is a 93.4% likelyhood this would FIX the wb' short term,

and a 87.6% chance it would FIX the wb' LONG term as well.
____________

and a new club would prosper following this notion too, everything ELSE is secondary to this concept.

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:52 PM   #3
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Yes, a new club...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind View Post
Many complain about the existing choices in Airstream clubs, so I'm asking those whose needs are not presently being met how they would structure a new Airstream Club that will work and prosper in the future.

CrawfordGene was my initial choice because he is a professed student of social organizations and knows what does not work. Although he does not have the time to create a new club or host an event himself, he does like to write. So in response to his remarks:

Originally posted by CrawfordGene:
. . . So we could have a Colorado Vintage Club, a SW FB Club, a No Rules Rocky Mountain Club, Left Handed Airstreamers Club, North America Weird Guys Club (Ladies Welcome), Little Bear* Drunkards Airstreamers. Pick your affinity group or your region or city. No limits. Some works, some doesn't. Gene

I asked him:

Gene:

Briefly, how would you structure the "club" to grow and prosper in today's world? What basic or general rules, if any, would apply to membership . . . events . . . affiliation . . . identification? Who would bear or cover the initial expenses for the organization and for specific occasions, like a rally? Is computer ownership a prerequisite?

I hope many others will also contribute their good ideas on how the future successful Airstream Club should be structured and run. Thank you in advance for your ideas.
Hi Fred,

Last August we had a very lively discussion about this very subject.

See:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...sal-44741.html

to learn more about what was discussed.

At that time I abandoned my efforts to work on this forum to create a new Airstream club simply because we were not able to do what we wanted on the forum.

But, now that Andy has decided to allow other clubs to do things on the forum I have asked him by way of a PM if this is something that could be done now using what he has so graciously offered in a separate post about clubs being able to use the forum as a meeting place.

I am more than willing to continue what was discussed in the above thread provided that Andy is willing to work with us to set up a place on the forum where we can do so.

While it would be nice to see the WBCCI "get its act together" I do not think that will happen in a time frame that will work for my wife and I. I have nothing but respect for the WBCCI and its rich tradition and history. Unfortunately that tradition and history is not working for us in the 21st century and this is what led to my comments in the above referenced post.

I will make the same offer that I made in the post which was to drive and coordinate the process for those that are interested in moving forward to establish a new club.

Jim
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:18 PM   #4
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Oh, dear.

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Old 11-12-2009, 07:24 PM   #5
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I wouldn't. Ther is a group of AS owners that get together twice a year at a small county park in northern Illinois (Pecatonica). The town is about half way between Rockford and Freeport Il. We do NOT have any dues, by-laws wear hats and vests or the like.
The group started about 4 years ago with 5 AS owners and now has 12 units. Most of the units are vintage except me.
We keep in contact by e-mail, phone and post here under rallys. Anyone with an As is welcome and some SOB's sometime showup.
We meet to camp, eat and socialize. There is always a coffee or tea pot going and we solve the problems of the world and Airstreams.
Look for us in the Rally section of the forum and the next meeting will be in May. Hope to see and or hear from you than.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:31 PM   #6
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Fred, As much as I want to help you in this I am going to wait a bit and see where this goes. I asked about a what if situation for names and was met with lots of negative responses. Personally,I am making the club what I want it to be.

2air, thank you. I could not agree with you more.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #7
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Now THAT'S a group I would join! Or Maybe, the corona drinking, cuban rolled cigar smoking, Keys club! :-)
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:06 PM   #8
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Think positive . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
well this isn't EXACTLY the question i'd hoped U would post... but somehow i'm not entirely surprised. . . cheers, 2air'
This thread is NOT about fixing anything. Instead, it is a Clean Paper exercise about creating something, a club "structure" that will fulfill the Airstream needs of those presently unsatisfied. What is that structure? How will it operate? I have heard the complaints and am not interested in hearing them again. Rather, tell us the positive. What will work? What is the solution? What would you create?
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind View Post
...What will work? What is the solution?...
answered.

see the prime directive.

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:27 AM   #10
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Lets Start With

Rally locations. How about places other than the typical Fairgrounds. Rally sites that are vacation destinations that would draw people to use their limited vacation time.

Reasonable dues.

Specialists in the areas of club management, accounting managers working with the funds, marketing professionals marketing the club ect. Paid professionals doing what they do best.


I'll keep thinking................
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:01 AM   #11
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No matter how you structure a club, there will always be people who manage and run it. Given human nature, those people will run it to most benefit themselves rather than the members. I do not know of any large organization that does not have a leader or a small group of people who call the shots behind the scene.

Maybe Andy has it right, lots of little groups with individual like interests and no large structure. Serviced at no cost through Internet communications.

Another approach: Leave the big national rallies and events to companies that only service those type of events for profit. Companies who do not make a profit go out of business. it is called capitalism. Good Sam is still in business after 30 years and service over 1 million members. Everything, except the magazine, is a la carte at a profit.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:18 AM   #12
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So far there is one Clean Paper proposal, the Modest Approach made by Norsea last spring. He had an inclusive plan and was willing to taken action and discuss the details to implement it. It appears to have been shelved due to lack of a convenient and readily accessible communication spot for further discussion on the details.

2air's "prime directive" seems to be a proposal to fix the WBCCI by decapitating, defunding and decentralizing it. That solution seems to be to disassociate all units from the international. It appears to be an effective solution to many WBCCI problems but will be difficult to implement by those who refuse to join. How will non-members convince each Unit to vote on disassociation? Would you construct any alternative entity to attract them to? Or just press for Unit autonomy from the outside? . . or join and argue your point of view from inside a Unit? What is your strategy for implementing your effective solution?

Our resident scholar on failing social organizations he doesn't join had this to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
If this is coordinated through the Forum, access to a computer or smart phone or something yet to be invented (Dick Tracy's wrist radio?) would be needed. You can use a computer at a public library so you don't have to own one.

I don't have answers to the rest of your questions—answers will develop. I don't know much about the NorCal group, but they appear to be friends who publicize their rallies through the Forum. An idea is probably knocked around over a campfire or via PM's or otherwise, some agreement is reached, someone contacts a CG, gets information, perhaps reservations are made, or people make them individually, and it happens. I think they go to some places regularly, others are new. Seems to work for them and maybe they'll post here and tell us how they developed this anti-structure structure.

Others can come up with other ideas and surely will. I can see the outlines of the idea, but I'm an old guy with expertise in corporate and nonprofit law and organization. I'm probably the last guy to create a group that's different, but I am trying to visualize it.

It doesn't have to be an organizational copy of the WBCCI. It is not a challenge to the WBCCI. I am trying to understand the meaning of your posts, Fred. Is it that you perceive this as a threat to the WBCCI or the 4CU? It is something as yet undefined. Regardless of what happens through the Forum the WBCCI will stand or fall on its own. If it doesn't thrive, that will be its responsibility, not anyone else's, and something will fill the vacuum.

I cannot tell you the rules, basic or complicated, or costs, if any, of something not yet in existence. I think the idea is do whatever you want as individuals or groups. Any person or group can establish a presence for group action on this Forum. The group or individual will establish whatever they want to—bylaws if they want them, none of they don't, marching bands if they want, perhaps circles of friends just getting together and communicating through the Forum. There will be different models ranging across the board.

Let's see what happens, Gene.
Now, I'm not asking the impossible: what does a woman want? I'm asking for a vision, something positive and implementable that can be created to avoid the attributes that some people find so unattractive in the WBCCI. If you are so well versed in the problem, then what is the solution? Is there a solution? Or is it a case of "I don't have answers" but will continue to complain nevertheless?

Gene mentions the NorCal group as one model. I agree its a model that works. I hear no complaints from them. Instead, active people from within step forward and organize events on an ongoing basis. But they are not composed wholly of people who have no time to organize or host events. So I guess every successful model needs some worker bees to serve the busy bees.

Is the solution for those who are dissatisfied to just sit around in an grumpy state and wait for someone else take the reins and organize an event in their locale to their liking? Is depending on the kindness of strangers the vision for the future? Or is it something else? Do you have a solution? . . . or just complaints?

Are there any other Clean Paper good ideas out there?
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:02 AM   #13
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Restructure and Existing Club? or Structure a New Club?

Both have obstacles. Normally the outspoken gain the leadership. I chortle at what an array of leaders might come out of a new club. You talk about one-upmanships. Wow! Problems today?

Like the convergence of planets, in 1955 you had Wally, Helen, and some very level headed Airstream owners. There were hours of discussions, I assume a few heated hours by the committee that put the constitution together for the Club.

They tried to make a bullet proof Club. Times do change, but over the course of the history the leadership comes from Units. They are nominated, elected and serve. Their lives aren't that easy, but who they are and how they got there comes from the Membership. If you wish to find fault, look in the mirror. Over the years, if there are problems with leadership, it comes from the Membership.

For those that have left the Club, or those that have never joined the power and the change within the Club is in your hands. If you don't like a local Unit and you have a majority waiting in the wings...inflitrate the Unit, and become a significant voiting Unit.

When you boil all the unsavory words and comments out, changes will only take place by joining and upgrading units, or forming new Units. Once there is sufficient voting power then you can enhance the good things and bring about some, but not all, of the changes you harp on. Many of your changes, that you shout about, will only replace and in many instances be worse that issues you demean about now. Be careful!

The Club founders knew what they were doing. Do you?
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
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..2air's "prime directive" seems to be a proposal to fix the WBCCI by decapitating, defunding and decentralizing it. ...
not so.

but ONCE the notion and MANDATE that local MEMBER fees MUST be spent at the local level is in place,

THE FOCUS of the central organization is redirected TOWARD the membership.

there are sponsors, advertisers, paid national events and OTHER ways to fund the central office or IBT...

or ANY INTER/national governing structure NOT part of a local unit.

new members might pay an EXTRA 1 time fee for the 'start up bits' (badges, red #s, PRINT materials and so on)
__________

and at the UNIT level paying members are ENABLED with the power to USE their annual membership fees as THEY see best.

and VOTING on ANY issue becomes IMPORTANT 2 the INDIVIDUAL with DIRECT effects realized locally.

-wanna have a rally ? (the central office provides the PER event $ for insurance)

-wanna have a FORMAL OFFICER ceremony and 'want' some IBT hat there ? (the UNIT pays their travel $)

-wanna rent/build/fund a LOCAL repair facility OR meeting place or LAND YACHT HARBOR ? (they USE the member fees to do this)

-wanna do a fall carnival for the kids, pets or OLD people ?(the funds are YOUR UNITS to use.)

-units TOO SMALL 2 fund the things THEY WANT combine with OTHER units...

-and in the EARLY years of transition IF the central body canNOT figure out how to survive withOUT member fees...

-----the MEMBERSHIP can vote to ALLOCATE a SMALL % of their mem/UNIT fees centrally.....

(((but titrations like this ONLY slow the transition of power and thinking, so USE the trust fund $ for this...)))

YES drafting, promoting and PASSING the PRIME DIRECTIVE is a challenge...

but 1m1v, name change, rebranded inclusions and EVERY OTHER legislative effort has been a distraction FROM work toward...

the prime directive.

_____________

-ONCE there is a MANDATE to REdirect membership fees TO the members, THEIR needs or wants...

creativity BLOOMS
.
__________
__________

currently members PAY the home office and governing body...

(which then SPENDS that money as the IBT sees fit, and THAT is a PROBLEM...)

then members PAY AGAIN for member related things and LOCAL events...

then members PAY AGAIN for national rallies or caravans...

and so on.
__________

IF the strength and value and magic of the wb' is AT the LOCAL UNIT LEVEL...

as SO MANY HAPPY MEMBERS CLAIM....

enable MORE happiness with $$$

attract MORE members with the knowledge that THEIR dues will be SPENT at the LOCAL level.

attract NEW leadership (from that GROWING body of members) with the knowledge that THEIR efforts MUST be to SERVICE the membership.

and the VOLUNTEERS to help lead/enable the NEW FOCUS will POUR OUT from the member ranks.

the IBT and governing process is like ONE GIANT TEEN QUEEN SHOW (only with really old, mean, grumpy men in hats)
____________

national/central club events MUST/would then refocus on interesting locations, DESIREABLE activities and FUN for the members....

who WILL PAY to attend a week long THING that is ATTRACTIVE to those members.

or WILL PAY for group SIZE related membership, value ADDed features, like OTHER national AFFILIATION groups offer.
____________

it's simple really and liberating on many levels and does NOTHING to break UP the club or cut OFF it's head.
____________

and i have witnessed HOW the CULTURE of a dying "product affiliation group" can change, GROW and REinvent.

after the PRIME DIRECTIVE is established.

this ONE CLEAR DIRECT ARTICULATION makes for all secondary guidelines that follow and NONE that conflict.

cheers
2air'
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