Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-13-2009, 11:19 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
wxbuoy's Avatar
 
1991 35' Airstream 350
Carriere , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via Skype™ to wxbuoy
My proposal....

Fred,

Please don't take any offense to this reply. I hate this type of communication because you can't see the other person.

Here is the error in you post, and what I believe is also the problem.... and solution.

"about creating something, a club "structure" that will fulfill the Airstream needs of those presently unsatisfied"

We live in a virtual world. I think the biggest issue today facing any club is that people don’t want structure. We don’t need structure. We don’t have to mail in deposits, or call ahead for reservations as when the club was first started. We can do it all from the road on our blackberry, from an I-phone sitting in the corner coffee shop, or even from our home computer at 02:00 in the morning. I am not retired. My wife and I both work different schedules. We may have this week-end off or we may have next Tuesday-Wednesday off. The point is we can on the spur of the moment see who is where and join (or avoid) them.

This I feel is the biggest advantage to the clubs and groups listing and "where streaming". It would allow groups to form sporadically (and disappear the same way) as the needs arose. Strong healthy clubs would naturally be a result of groups that kept reforming of the same members.

So here is the answer you seek. Do nothing… What I mean is the WBCCI should not change. It serves a function. Just because it doesn’t serve everyone, so what. So I see 4 airstream organizational structures:

WBCCI: True to its charter an international caravanning club.

Local Units: Local member ship for the WBCCI.

Local non-WBBCI airstream units: groups of like minded individuals out for a common purpose. Structured however the local unit decides. With as many or as little by laws as they so wish. These will not exist in areas where local WBCCI units serve the needs of the local community. Why should they the “need” has been met. Or there could be both. Just like there is a intra club of Ham radio operators in the WBCCI. Why can't there be a group of caravaners with kids, coastal cruisers, week-end warriors, state park parkers, and so on.

Virtual on demand groups (VDG): Groups arising for a specific need during a specific time frame. This would allow for “spontaneous” rallies and members finding new places to go with new people. It could something as simple as 1 person saying they are going to be at this place this coming week-end. This would allow another streamer to join them. Or even a non- streamer to say hey, I will be in the area can I see that really neat 1948 Wee Wind? Or even something as large as “let’s all head to such and such the 3rd week-end in February.”

So in the end the new structure you seek will develop from the VDGs and local non-WBCCI clubs. THEY WILL NOT REPLACE the WBCCI, but augment it!

I think what we need is diversity. I don’t mean by having everyone join and support the WBCCI or what ever club. I mean by having all the options available. I plan on joining the WBCCI, if they will have me. But, I don’t plan on trying to make it fit me.

If you set up a structure like you want for a new organization, you have all ready limited it! You can’t see all the beauty and wonders of this country and world if you stay on the highway!
__________________

__________________
Dave and Felicia
wxbuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #16
3 Rivet Member
 
1972 29' Ambassador
Harrah , Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Images: 1
Darn it. I have to get more popcorn.

With internet forums like this, why bother with a formal club full of personal agendas and folks you don't want to deal with?

How about just a post here saying "I'm headed to National Park XYZ on the 5th of May. Anybody want to meet up, bring some food for a cookout."
__________________

__________________
My Brain Project and Tech Notes
airbassador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 01:02 PM   #17
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
rluhr's Avatar
 
1968 17' Caravel
2005 30' Safari
Somewhere , roaming America
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,093
Images: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbassador View Post
How about just a post here saying "I'm headed to National Park XYZ on the 5th of May. Anybody want to meet up, bring some food for a cookout."
That's a good question. People do it all the time here on the forums, (for example, the "Boondocking with Jimmini" thread). The problem is that the forum is not currently designed for really efficient exchange of such information.

For example, there's no way to isolate your invitation to a group of people who you know, or who who have similar interests as you. A lot of people wouldn't be comfortable posting their travel plans on an online forum either. (Witness how many people actually post on this forum versus the "lurkers".)

But I can see from the recent introduction of "club" tools that Andy R is headed in the direction of providing better tools for forum users to meet up. This may lead to the "virtual on demand groups" concept that wxbuoy has described in his post above.

Whether a new club is formed or not, whether WBCCI is revamped or not, whether Airforums develops these tools or not, eventually some Internet social networking sites will evolve specifically to serve this need.
__________________
Former full-timer | AIRSTREAM LIFE magazine | Tour of America (old blog) | Man In The Maze (current blog)

rluhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2009, 03:26 PM   #18
Full Timers/Diesel power.
 
Mike Leary's Avatar
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Cactus Hug , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,540
Images: 11
It's snowing in Flagstaff right now.
__________________
"A settled wisdom, plus the itch to be elsewhere"
Mike Leary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 08:14 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
47WeeWind's Avatar
 
1948 16' Wee Wind
1953 21' Flying Cloud
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,149
Images: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxbuoy View Post
Fred, Please don't take any offense to this reply. I hate this type of communication because you can't see the other person. . . . We live in a virtual world. I think the biggest issue today facing any club is that people don’t want structure. We don’t need structure. We don’t have to mail in deposits, or call ahead for reservations as when the club was first started. We can do it all from the road on our blackberry, from an I-phone sitting in the corner coffee shop, or even from our home computer at 02:00 in the morning. I am not retired. My wife and I both work different schedules. We may have this week-end off or we may have next Tuesday-Wednesday off. The point is we can on the spur of the moment see who is where and join (or avoid) them.
I agree and no offense is taken. I had to use some word so choose "structure" but meant it in the broadest sense, from steel to gossamer. A seemingly leaderless flock of birds has a fluid and quickly changing "structure" that works well for them. I like the augmenting structures.

But there must be some kind of structure created for you to register your 2:00 a.m. choices with someone or to even see what choices might exist. Andy has provided one type of structure here that will allow you and others to do that with your VDGs. And people have been doing that on this Forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rluhr
For example, there's no way to isolate your invitation to a group of people who you know, or who who have similar interests as you. A lot of people wouldn't be comfortable posting their travel plans on an online forum either. (Witness how many people actually post on this forum versus the "lurkers".)

But I can see from the recent introduction of "club" tools that Andy R is headed in the direction of providing better tools for forum users to meet up. This may lead to the "virtual on demand groups" concept that wxbuoy has described in his post above.
Rich, you mentioned one solution. Affinity gathering groups which I'll call "Cliques" (life always reverts to the mean, high school) can -- I imagine -- be formed here just like a non-unit Unit and can have private communications among themselves in a thread that is available only to approved Clique members. An open announcement on the events page can advise everyone of the gathering's existence, and they can knock somewhere to be let into the "Clique" thread for a particular event or, if the Clique has legs, for a continuing series of events. If the people cohere, they may eventually form some type of non-unit Unit or perhaps arise to a local node status in a larger affinity group.

The gathering organizers can determine whether or not to post attendees names somewhere so people can see whether any friends will be attending. We've done that for years with the Rocky Mt. VAC Rally and have not heard any complaints that I can recall.

'2air, thank you for clarifying your "prime directive". It makes sense to me. Expenses can be saved at the national level and retained at local levels for more fun activities by using cheaper communication channels. Much of the higher level organization communications can be "uploaded" to the web and run there at a much lower cost and with much quicker up-and-down, back-and-forth interaction than one way top-down directives such as hard print magazines. The key is having people who are friendly, flexible and welcoming running the web show. Napoleonic dictators drive people away and extend harm to the organization well beyond only its members (to all prospective members), which is more difficult to achieve in a hard-print magazine mailed only to members. Offensive behavior carries much farther on the web than in members-only publications.

Today, in the Internet world that opens an organization's behavior to the view of unlimited prospective members as well as most existing members, an organization's web master may be far more important position than its president or its entire executive committee combined in determining the type and kind of message being broadcast to the world by that organization. Pick your web masters very carefully; its no longer a minor position within an organization.
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum"
Airstream Life
"From the Archives"
47WeeWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 10:46 AM   #20
Aluminum in 3-D
 
Blue Pearl's Avatar
 
1968 28' Ambassador
Seaside , Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 571
Images: 1
Wxbouy, I agree 100%! We can all camp together, I know that in my neck of the woods, We have both the Oregon Unit #090 and the NW Streamers. Many of us belong to both and camp with both, there is no fist fights or name calling, just camping. Let's hope that what Andy R is doing will bring every one together as a camping club be it WB or Forum.

Sorry WeeWind, got off subject. I agree on your last post. The WB is changing and good or bad they realize the internet needs to be their friend to grow.
__________________
Teresa

Membership chair
Wally Byam Airstream Club
Past President Oregon Unit 090

Campfires, the original social media!
wbcci#29827

Check out the [URL="https://airstreamclub.org/"and Wally Byam Airstream Club on facebook
Blue Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #21
2 Rivet Member
 
WALLY 54's Avatar
 
1954 25' Cruiser
1977 27' Overlander
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78
As one who has attended both WBCCI and NorCal (forums) rallies, I can offer some thoughts.

WBCCI has rigidity issues, whereas NorCal rallies do not. One thing for sure, all rallies take some planning and somebody has to step up to the plate to do this and that. But the forums rallies evolve in the weeks and months that lead up to the event.
You start with the basics – A location and the one given standard event – the potluck. The rest fills in…You get people volunteering to host a bar on Friday and maybe someone else hosts a happy hour on Saturday.

Somebody will chime in and bring out a projector to watch a movie. A few always bring out instruments and a band is formed. Want to listen? – Fine, join in. Want some more quiet time with your glass of port? Join the folks over at that trailer. Want to be alone – be alone.

Want to show up in Jeans and a t-shirt? You are perfectly dressed. Want to walk around in your illuminated tutu (even though you do not necessarily have the right plumbing to do so) – you fit in – sort of. Got your special “Pimp Daddy” hat – wear it. Want to wear a suit and tie – fine. Point is individuality is a distinguishing characteristic of a successful club. Each person brings the qualities they have to contribute to the whole.

The dominant characteristic I believe that makes it a successful event is the freedom of expression. You come as you are with what you have to offer and share in, participate in the rally, not just attend it. The group must have a high level of acceptability.
With the exception of the VAC – this doesn’t exist at the International level – at least not at the internationals we have attended. Units each have their own levels of rigidity and acceptance and thrive depending on how that works for them.

Another important item is having a club that has the ability to listen to its members. And one that establishes a protocol to react quickly and decisively to new and innovative ideas, and to solutions to problems. Things can change overnight. We have ways of communicating and disseminating information quickly. We can use this to our advantage, rather than run from it.

Make each member a responsible party in the club, don’t hover over them. The governing documents need to be lightweight – we are running a club, not a major metropolitan area. It is the members who make the club, not the rulebooks. NorCal – besides the way we will pay for our camping spot – and the potluck mandate, there really are no rules.

Lastly, identity is important. Basically, Identity is how are you perceived in the outside world. Obviously, WBCCI has some identity issues –membership is declining year after year while sales of Airstreams is strong. You come up with your own conclusions as to why that is. A new club has to have an identity that gives the impression we are welcoming, warm and enjoyable. I will tread carefully here because some people are quite sensitive about this issue. The impression that WBCCI gives off – based on comments I have heard about the club is things like militaristic, religious, old. Words like “family” do not really play into the thoughts of WBCCI, even though they try to be more family friendly. While those aspects are being questioned, and don’t seem to be of interest to the waves of new members – they are in use in WBCCI, upheld by many, and are a huge historical part of WBCCI. They shouldn’t be attacked – if a new club is going to be accepting you will have to take this as well. It should not be the predominant aspect of the club, just one aspect of it.

NorCal – EVERYBODY is included, if they aren’t I have not heard about it yet. Maybe people just keep it to themselves. You do not see sideways glances because you have kids or pets. You are not pushed out if you are old and maybe have some medical problems.

So, there you have it.
__________________
VAC 1 V.P. & Vintage Advantage Magazine Editor
WALLY54 1954 Cruiser #11281
Buttercup 77 Overlander #17330
1990 345-LE MoHo Classic #7830
Air #
19124
WALLY 54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 03:12 PM   #22
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,911
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
I think it depends on what the new club is being formed for. Obviously the historians would know better than me, but I have heard that the current club evolved to facilitate caravans, and that is why there are so many rules. It was never intended to be a club for weekend campers, and so the rules seem overbearing for a camping club. You need a lot more rigidity when you are trying to guide 30 trailers from here to there over the course of a month. Everyone needs to drive tomorrow, suddenly the 'no alcohol' rule makes more sense. I have had the old folks tell me that we HAVE to go on a caravan sometime, it's the whole point of the club. It's no surprise to me that most of the enthusiastic old-times in our group were teachers, who spent their summers off traveling. Some of the people in our unit had been retired almost as long as I've been alive! Those people have gotten a lot out of the current club, made a lot of friends and are very loyal to it. They don't need a new club.

On the other hand younger streamers like us who only have weekends off have been getting together, using the forums to organize low-key rallies. No dues, no commitment. Sometimes we can make it, sometimes we can't. That's just about the right speed for us.

I don't think you can sit down and try to structure a new club, without finding out what the club intends to do. What is it for? There need to be people begging for organization to make something happen. I just don't see that happening. There are people who are fine with the uber-organization of the current club, and people who are happy with the almost-no organization of forum rallies. If there is to be a new club, it needs to meet some need that those two organizations are not meeting. So first someone needs to say what that is.
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 07:02 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
47WeeWind's Avatar
 
1948 16' Wee Wind
1953 21' Flying Cloud
Denver , Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,149
Images: 20
Twallies . . .

At the minimal end of "structure", perhaps in the near future spontaneous Airstream Rallies will be organized over Twitter by posting GPS coordinates and dates, ending with "RO" [Rally On!] . . . becoming known, of course, as Twallies. Please keep the ideas coming. Thanks!
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510, AIR #2675
Denver, Colorado - WBCCI Unit 24
Airstream Life "Old Aluminum"
Airstream Life
"From the Archives"
47WeeWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 07:56 PM   #24
Rivet Master
 
wxbuoy's Avatar
 
1991 35' Airstream 350
Carriere , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via Skype™ to wxbuoy
Twallies!! Now that is an awesome out of the box idea! It would be a geocaching type rally. What a great a theme for a rally. Post a GPS location and let the fun begin!

BTW, we went to a luncheon with the local WBCCI. What a great group of folks. We joined in a heart beat. We are looking forward to all the activities that we can participate in with them. Although our schedule doesn't allow full participation (still have to make a living), we will do what we can. We also look forward to doing some of our own VDGs and Twallies!

I think the best part for us is the instant group of mentors you have at your disposal.

So maybe I was looking at this issue all wrong. Maybe the "new group" should be a feeder group like hte mior leagues. For those of us just getting into it, still working and kids at home, there could be a "minor league WBCCI membership. Say $25. It will get you the Blue Beret magazine and numbers for the local unit. They could be designated a different way like ham call signs. Who knows. But I have seen first hand that the local units are what are going to get and KEEP new members!

RO!
__________________
Dave and Felicia
wxbuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 08:01 PM   #25
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,911
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxbuoy View Post
For those of us just getting into it, still working and kids at home, there could be a "minor league WBCCI membership. Say $25. It will get you the Blue Beret magazine and numbers for the local unit.
For $25 a year I would probably still be a member, but four years of paying $80 a year and getting out to maybe one rally a season with the WB folks just didn't fly. They wouldn't even have to send me the BB, just the local unit rag would do
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 08:38 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
Mikethefixit's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
Trotwood , Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,153
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikethefixit
I think NO Structure WORKS FOR US. NO DUES. GPS Coordinates and the day and lets camp and have fun. NO OFFICERS are need. I have been to a few AirForums events. We needed NOTHING. Everyone had a great time. I came away satisfied. Everyone pitches in and helps and contributes something. If you care too.GO Back to the Detroit-Metro Rally 2008 pictures and see if you find anyone unhappy.
I think not. That's the kind of group I want to belong too.
__________________
Roger & MaryLou
___________________
F350 CREWCAB SW LONG BED
7.3 liter Power Stroke Diesel
1977 27ft OVERLANDER
KA8LMQ
AIR # 22336 TAC- OH-7
May your roads be straight and smooth and may you always have a tailwind!
Mikethefixit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2009, 08:49 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
Lothlorian's Avatar
 
1973 27' Overlander
Loganville , Georgia
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,733
I would have a club which did community service for the state and national parks. I would have the airstreamers meet and help erradicate the invasive weeds (weeds mostly from Asia) which are destroying the understory of our forests. It is really developing into a very serious problem.

There are programs all over the country at this moment with many people taking action against invasive plants such as chinese privet, Kudzu, stilt grass, and many other foriegn plants. The parks need our help because they do not have the man power or the budget to handle the growing problem.

Have all the airstreamers meet at a park where the forest service have already found a dangerous amount of invasive weeds. The airstreamers would hit those spots and physically remove the weeds. Airstreamers going green for the good old USA. Parks may give us free campsites for the time spent doing that type of activity.

Food for thought. At least people would be helping the environment and not sitting around trying to figure out how to make the operating structure of a social club better. They would be to busy during the day and to tired to dwell on other problems. They would be doing community service, working out, and working together for the common good of this great land.

Yes I have been out with a school group to do this type of activity before, and so have many other organizations. I just went to a conference where the National, and State forest service presented the problems they are facing and how they are attacking those problems. I listended to several organized clubs speak about how they work with the community to rid the land of this scourage.
I have been impressed with the adult clubs recruiting kids to help out.

I will get off my soap box now and go to bed, because I have a big day tomorrow pulling the suburban nt30 out of the trailer. Wish me luck. I am going to try to fix it.



Brian
__________________
Brian & Adrienne
Lothlorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2009, 07:37 AM   #28
Rivet Master
 
wxbuoy's Avatar
 
1991 35' Airstream 350
Carriere , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via Skype™ to wxbuoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts View Post
For $25 a year I would probably still be a member, but four years of paying $80 a year and getting out to maybe one rally a season with the WB folks just didn't fly. They wouldn't even have to send me the BB, just the local unit rag would do
Great point. Why can't we have different levels of membership. A local unit membership only fee. So what ever the local unit currently charges, that's what you pay. Than have $X amount added for those who want the BB magazine and red letters. Finally have the current full blown fee for those who want to go to national rallies and the such. You already add a red star for every 5 years. why not a gold star showing you are full blow member. Or even different colors like the jackets they where at the rallies denoting local, regional and IBT officers.

Capitalism would than determine the upper ranks of the club. You want more full members, you have to start giving better benefits for the money. Not just red letters and the privilege of saying you are in the WBCCI.

We can't do any of the national things because we both work, so we get no benefit of joining the WBCCI, other than the local club. I am sure it is not always going to be like that. However, you have to keep us "tweens" (between young with no kids and old with grandkids!) interested and engaged.
__________________

__________________
Dave and Felicia
wxbuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Structure /attaching things to the walls khadley Interior Restoration Forum 2 07-20-2009 02:01 PM
Who's club is it anyway???? till WBCCI Forum 53 01-09-2007 10:34 AM
Why should we join a club? Angel73 WBCCI Forum 11 05-24-2006 07:23 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.