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Old 07-12-2004, 01:39 PM   #57
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In my unit I get the impression a lot of the old folks are only still involved as officers because there are no younger people to take over for them. Young blood and new ideas would be welcomed. The 'old guard' is not perpetuating a way of life, they are just doing it the way they know how.

It is a chicken and the egg thing. There won't be younger activities until there are younger members. There won't be younger members until there are younger activities. The 80 year olds are not going to schedule a weekend at a far away lake with a hike - they can't do it! The younger folks don't want a weekend at a campground in town just visiting and playing boardgames with old friends. But if there is a mix in the club then they can find a middle road everyone can enjoy, and many will be happy to do it.

Speaking as someone who started a car club once on my own, trust me, it's better to fix what's already there. You have no idea how much work they've already done for you.
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Old 07-12-2004, 01:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo
I think we are saying the same thing.
I guess if ANY is used then my point speaks for itself. A little here and a little there adds up.
I am not the treasurer of the International club. I cannot say with 100% certainty that the International Rally does not utilize funds from the general budget. I do know that the rally is expected to stand on it's own and not be a financial burden on the membership to support it. If you are a member you can request a copy of the current financials from Headquarters as I did last year and try to figure it out. I did not see last year where the club added funds to the International rally fund based on what I saw.

Quote:
Well that's promising, but not practical.
The quick fix would be to just start over with a new club. That way the old guard would not get in the way, you would not have to wait for attrition (death) to have new thinkers in ALL the positions. The old guard would still have what they have cultivated and deserve to control.
So are you volunteering your time to develop the club? Charter a corporation with the costs involved, look for an insurer, create the structure as it may be defined and the associated forms for membership, etc? It currently takes 3 people full time to do this for the membership as it stands today. That is not counting the 6-8 International officers that do a bunch of the work.

Quote:
Whatever the assets (non financial) could be duplicated and hopefully shared.
Why would the club be willing to let a "rival" club copy it's materials? Also if we are copying the materials how would that allow for the change you are speaking to?

Quote:
It is the only logical way IMHO. None of this should have to be contentious. It is not we against them, it is just two different worlds that can only collide in the short run. If all went well the old group should welcome the new but separate group. I'll bet some of them would join the new too.
If folks like you have loyalties and or torn at leaving old acquaintances, then join both the old and new groups.
If it is done this way it will be a contentious issue. That is just human nature. I agree with your earlier statement regarding the fact that some of the old guard are resisting change. The thing is they see the writing on the wall.

The club must adapt or it will die. If a "new" club is started then all the history of the club will be lost in the death of the old club. For many Airstream owners part of the ownership of the trailer/motorhome is being connected someway with the past. Maybe a familial past in some cases, and for some it has been a dream since they were a kid.

Starting a new club is in my opinion illogical when the club as it stands now is looking for ways to embrace the younger members and is just starting the process of adapting to the realities of todays Airstream owner. Fast change is something many of us are used to. Define a problem, define a solution, apply solution to problem, next issue.

There are current International officers that are pushing for change. There are a bunch of current and prospective members that are looking for change. All we need to do is volunteer a portion of our time and communicate our ideas and the change can happen.

The real issue is numbers. Club members can create a groundswell of change if they are organized and understand the workings of the club as a whole. I am working on this with some other forward thinking members of WBCCI.

If you have the time to form a Unit of the WBCCI them you can make your local unit what you want it to be. The club starts at the unit level. The International offices are responsible to the units. There are vital, growing, fun units out there. I know I have see them. There are other units that eventually will dissolve due to lack of new members. The best way to make a difference is to get involved.

In short I would advise those that are not happy with the club as it is today to make yourselves heard. 3237 posted a well thought our reasoned response. There are threads here on the forum that speak to some of the issues that the forum members feel are important to draw them to the club.
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Old 07-12-2004, 01:57 PM   #59
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Hi Gang!

3237's comments are cogent. The WBCCI as currently configured is (apparently) ideal for the fully retired members. What is required is a new club designed for the working member, members with jobs, children and little time. Someone said VAC might be the core of a new club; possibly simply splitting off and establishing their own presence would start the ball rolling.

As 3237 has said Lansing's major failure was communication. Over a hundred 'volunteers' responsible for hundreds of 'things' without a central coordinator results in chaos. Web site without a shred of information simply adds to the confusion. It seemed everybody was in charge, but no one was responsible.

Why were there no activities, daily, at the camping area?

Why were the children generally ignored?

Why was the VAC group set off to the furthest reaches of the camping area?

Why isn't complete registration taken care of at parking time? Everyone's located in one spot and all ministerial minutiae could be resolved once and for-all.

Why are guest admissions significantly less than members? Isn't that upside down?

The Fan-Tastic installation team was superb; possibly a demo seminar?

3237 said it well and I think it's time to look for another venue vice trying to change something that works for a certain segment of the Airstream population but not another.

It should be an 'Us & Them' situation, not an 'Us vs. Them'. I believe two orginazations could quite happily coexist. Much happier than trying to reform one into another. Too many people would lose in that scenario.

Just a thought.

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Old 07-12-2004, 03:24 PM   #60
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my two pennies

Hi y'all.

First off, I know I'm not a WBCCI member (yet), so I may or may not be speaking out of turn. But here goes, anyway.

Based upon what I've read in John's letter, and what each of you are saying about the struggle with keeping rallies both enjoyable and interesting for those 8 to 80 and beyond, I'd like to submit the following for consideration:

The WBCCI is a long-standing, time-honored club, rich with tradition and experience. It would seem a shame to give much of that up in the interest of trying to revitalize membership - in another club altogether.

I could see WBCCI as one large umbrella, under which all members young and old, working, and retired, married or single could congregate. However, within that you have different divisions - maybe a Vintage Airstream division, a "Silver Seniors" division, and so on and so forth. Each division has officers (#of officers = # of divisions) that discuss and arrange activities and events that appeal to that specific division - and of course, anyone who wishes to participate in any other division's activities is more than welcome to do so - the purpose ultimately is that everyone has a choice as to how they wish to spend their time. Naturally that (time) is a finite thing for a rally, so it's understood that there will probably always be more than one event occuring at the same time. Officers for each division, after determining how their division will schedule and initiate activities, alone will coordinate with all of the other officers and share information accordingly. When those meetings are complete, all divisions should know what the other divisions are doing, and where and when, etc. All members should, by this time, have a full accounting provided to them by their officers, as to not only what their division has planned, but what all the other divisions have planned as well. It ultimately will be up to the individual as to, out of what should be a large list of activities, how they choose to spend time. I don't necessarily think that outsourcing is required for smooth operation as much as clear, simple and open lines of communication between the members and the officers.

An example would be with the greeters and parkers. Each officer solicits members from their division who would be interested in being volunteers for this. This will be one of the points of coordination between division officers. When the officers meeting breaks, each officer should know who the parkers and greeters are for ALL divisions, not just their own. That way, help is not too far away; even if you're in the Senior group, you can still consult with an officer of another group, and they can provide you accurate information the first go-round, without having to flag down the Senior group officer. Also, parkers and greeters from all divisions should have each other's parking and greeting plan so they can point anyone in the correct direction the first time around.

Communication and timely accurate information is key one, to me. Once you have those two things hammered out it makes it a lot easier to accomodate everyone. If the folks want to sit around and listen to someone bellow from a bullhorn or square dance at the crack of yawn, that's great! At that same crack of yawn some other folks will be boarding a bus for a daytrip to museums or vineyards or hiking or whatever. Some folks won't be up at all for a while. Everyone does what they want. Everyone has a chance to participate in something they enjoy in a rally atmosphere - why? Because they had an opportunity to discuss it with their officer, who discussed and coordinated it with the other officers, and was then worked into the overall event scheduling. The opportunity to interact and visit with all members at the rally is of course, ever present.

I could be completely off the track with this, and I know I've probably left out a ton of details, but it's a general concept, anyway.

It just seems to me that a larger, smoother, more exciting rally could be had without alienating people or entire groups, and without adding outside help from people who don't know from "the Airstream lifestyle."


Let the rotten egg/tomato hurling commence!
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Old 07-12-2004, 04:32 PM   #61
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Well, it warrants discussion

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo
Well that's promising, but not practical.
The quick fix would be to just start over with a new club. That way the old guard would not get in the way, you would not have to wait for attrition (death) to have new thinkers in ALL the positions. The old guard would still have what they have cultivated and deserve to control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewkid64
So are you volunteering your time to develop the club? Charter a corporation with the costs involved, look for an insurer, create the structure as it may be defined and the associated forms for membership, etc? It currently takes 3 people full time to do this for the membership as it stands today. That is not counting the 6-8 International officers that do a bunch of the work.
No thenewkid64, I am not going to be the founder of the new club. But your attitude seems to be; if I don't (organize it) it makes it a bad idea. And that is just the wrong way to get along and generate honest helpful discussion.
I am simply stating an opinion based on years of watching different organizations both private & public, both volunteer and professional.

I say build a new club and "they will come". Or more accurately start the ball rolling and it will come to pass.

Consider this; case in point is the fact that your company built these forums because you all found the other ones (including the forum overseen by the WBCCI Vintage group) insufficient for you all's tastes, It was built and over 5300 souls came to it. Although I understand that there is much doubt about how many of those actually stayed and still contribute.

How can you newkid64, one of the founders here because you wanted more than the other lists could give you, reject the "idea" of exploring a whole new club straight out of hand, which may be needed by the newer generation owners for many of the same reasons you all started a new forum ?

Either way many will not join the old UNTIL it is overhauled. That too is human nature. Not all of us want to be builders or even helpers. Many just want to be users. Sorry but thats just the way it is. Others myself included are more interested from a get involved standpoint with a all new design instead of a remodeling project that may or may not even be wanted by the current inhabitants.

So the new group can have blue numbers instead of the red ones, and we can all still have a Merry Christmas, and of course by then this thread will be long forgotten and nothing will have seen the light of day as far as changes or serious discussions about same is concerned.
Oh and that is fine with me too.
You see I intend to enjoy the Airstream in spite of the WBCCI or its successors. It's an afterthought, when I fell for Airstreams I didn't even know the WBCCI existed. I can find (have found) someone to make me happy when I am Airstreaming.
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Old 07-12-2004, 05:03 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo
Consider this; case in point is the fact that your company built these forums because you all found the other ones (including the forum overseen by the WBCCI Vintage group) insufficient for you all's tastes, It was built and over 5300 souls came to it.
Not my company. I am but a volunteer moderator and a 10 year member of WBCCI. Your right about the VAC list, this one was was started to help share information on Airstreams in an interactive method, not a mailserve method, and cover more than just vintage.

Quote:
How can you newkid64, one of the founders here because you wanted more than the other lists could give you, reject the "idea" of exploring a whole new club straight out of hand, which may be needed by the newer generation owners for many of the same reasons you all started a new forum ?
I am not trying to "shoot down" the idea of a new club. I was trying to make the point that a "new" club will require a ton of work on somebody's part. I have done some of the research and unless you are independently wealthy or can see it as a business the time and costs involved make it a daunting task. For those that don't know the original club started with 55 members and the backing of Airstream.

The club as it exists today is fading membership wise. That is a point that I feel we are all in agreement on. The club is willing to change. I have seen changes in the last 2 years, and have it from the powers that be that they understand change is a necessity for the club's future. To that end I AM working to form a "NEW WBCCI UNIT" that will as part of it's charter take much that has been discussed here and in other threads on this forum and be sure it sees "the light of day". I must first fulfill the obligation I have made to my current unit so this will not begin to happen until 2006 at the earliest.

Quote:
Not all of us want to be builders or even helpers. Many just want to be users. Sorry but thats just the way it is. Others myself included are more interested from a get involved standpoint with a all new design instead of a remodeling project that may or may not even be wanted by the current inhabitants.
That is why I want to work within the current framework instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Starting a brand new club does just that. I want to Welcome all members, newbies, existing WBCCI members and the like. I don't expect everyone to want to build a better unit. I would hope that there are those of you out there that might want to be a part of it though as a member. I am not saying that the overall club will change overnight. it took a number of years for it to get the way it is now, it will take some time to restore it back to more of what it was in Wally's time.

Those that want to join in the change can, those that want to stay in their comfort zone can too. I want to minimize the us vs. them mentality. It may be a pipe dream........

I keep coming back to this, but it is true. The local units are the driving force behind the club. If they are vibrant and fun the club will be too.

Rallies are supposed to be fun, happy events that you should look forward to, wouldn't you agree?
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Old 07-12-2004, 06:51 PM   #63
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Brett and Dave, you seem to share similar, well reasoned ideas. Engaging diverse Airstreamers compatibly under the umbrella of the WBCCI is a best idea and SHOULD be doable. Perhaps a committee of interested forum members could format/develop such a plan based on the discussions above and approach WBCCI with the concept? (Sounds like a forum rally theme/project!) This could never be done as a threatening approach, but must be one that would respect, retain, and bring the best of the "old" into a structure that would amicably involve the "newer" interests. It would be sort of like a 3-ring circus: everyone at the big tent (rally) but various interests going on at the same time (just as Dave described above). It seems to me that WBCCI membership groups already function like this in many areas. Expand that to meet more regional interests to bring "younger/different members to WBCCI and then build the big rally around the concept. It's got to be a doable task because it's so darned sensible! I am pretty sure the membership rolls of the WBCCI would swell with such personalized welcoming inclusion of new Airstreamers. We joined WBCCI out of respect and to give our support for the "old" history of Airstreaming, as members at large, with little interest in active participation. That could change if the program engaged us
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Old 07-12-2004, 08:06 PM   #64
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Max and Georgia,

You hit the nail on the head! Include EVERYONE, use the structure that is there and start something fun and fresh that others want to be a part of. It is a if you build it they will come mentality but I have spoken to too many members and prospective members that are looking for just that.

Who knows maybe we can convert you from a MAL to a unit member!!

So in an effort to return to the normal scheduled discussion in this thread, anyone else want to talk about Lansing and the rally?
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Old 07-13-2004, 07:01 AM   #65
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How many times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmreilly10000
I was just responding, somewhat sarcastically I admit, to the eye witness report of 3237 about the International Rally in Lansing Michigan.

His report, along with other comments made here in this thread are not encouraging for younger people like me to attend International Rallies.

Regional rallies seem to be a different story.
How many times do people have to say it, "Read the book yourself". If only one persons account of any book was the same as any body elses, why would they print more than one book? Just let the official book reader read the book and tell the world how it is.

A classic example would be the good book, there are countless renditions and interpretations of this single book. Different people have different opinions. Why let some one else form your opinion? It is okay if your opinion is that the event sucked, but let it be your opinion and not some one elses, typically people will respect first hand info, ten fold, second hand info.

How can any one, go in a public forum and pass on information like, "Well Joe blow said......"

Lets hear what you think, AFTER YOU ATTEND!

We can wait another twenty years for you to join, we are patient........... come and see us when it suits you, its okay.

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Old 07-13-2004, 07:07 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo

Well that's promising, but not practical.
The quick fix would be to just start over with a new club. That way the old guard would not get in the way, you would not have to wait for attrition (death) to have new thinkers in ALL the positions. The old guard would still have what they have cultivated and deserve to control.
Whatever the assets (non financial) could be duplicated and hopefully shared.
It is the only logical way IMHO. None of this should have to be contentious. It is not we against them, it is just two different worlds that can only collide in the short run. If all went well the old group should welcome the new but separate group. I'll bet some of them would join the new too.
If folks like you have loyalties and or torn at leaving old aquaintances, then join both the old and new groups.


Personally I would not rush to use former WBCCI officials as officials in the new groups either, although there is undoubtedly much knowledge there.
Alot of the let's "wait and fix the old" rhetoric is no more than turf protection I am afraid.
Why should anyone who owns an Airstream have to wait to find a group that suits their wants....NOW.
Maybe it's time.

BTW I meant no disrespect with the term "geezer gathering" . I love the seniors and have learned so much in many areas from many of them.
It sounds like you have a plan, when do we sign up?
What is the name of this new outfit?
Where are we meeting?
How much are my dues?
Who is your staff?
Is there any formality?

Like it or not, the existing club is structured just like most other clubs including the USA, we may not care for the operation but we understand that the only way to change it is to BE INVOLVED and cast votes, send taxes, elect officials, etc....... Kinda like a club, huh?

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Old 07-13-2004, 07:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

Speaking as someone who started a car club once on my own, trust me, it's better to fix what's already there. You have no idea how much work they've already done for you.
Well said! listen up people. It is much easier to speak and be heard when you can speak FIRST HAND!
Thanks Stef,
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Old 07-13-2004, 07:14 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadeo
...Consider this; case in point is the fact that your company built these forums because you all found the other ones (including the forum overseen by the WBCCI Vintage group) insufficient for you all's tastes, It was built and over 5300 souls came to it. Although I understand that there is much doubt about how many of those actually stayed and still contribute...
Actually, a little less than that. Some souls keep coming back under different names
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Old 07-13-2004, 06:57 PM   #69
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Speaking as an 18-year member/participant in WBCCI, who joined at the age of 33, (you do the math) I have held various offices within my unit, including President.
I find some portion of the truth in most of the preceding posts. Folks' opinions and perceptions are valuable.
I would support STEPHROBTS comments as being very close to the way I see things in our club.
The possibilities are nearly endless as to what members can do within the structure of WBCCI. As with any group of people, there are always the 'whinners', the 'bulldozers', the 'sandbaggers', etc., etc., etc., but overall each is concerned about the organization and wants to have/provide an enjoyable and quality Airstream experience.
I cannot speak for all WBCCI officers & members, but for myself and many of my co-members, when I state that even the "old" people enjoy new and exciting venues and experiences.
We welcome new members with fresh ideas (even not-so-new members with fresh ideas) and WANT them to express their opinions/ideas. I can state that, as Unit Presidents, we welcome anyone who wanted to plan and organize a different rally or activity, start a special-interest group, arrange a local tour, etc.
'Same applies to some of the "old guard" rules & regulations (example: Why can't regular WBCCI members have a club flag to fly? Because we've never had one and it's "not allowed" without approval from the International Board. So??? Let's design one and get approval! This was done and the new general membership flags are on the way: with a modified design approved by the Board). Now, one needn't be a WBCCI officer to fly a WBCCI flag on their trailer: a small thing to many but a big thing to others and it CAN be done.
Anyway, continue the discussion, because there are some very good points and opinions being brought up.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:07 AM   #70
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Forum or the mudroom ?

In the late 50s a folk group, the Kingston Trio, extolled this lyric:
"they're rioting in Africa,
they're starving in Spain,
What nature doesn't do to us,
will be done by our fellow man."
Today, millions are starving in the genocidal Sudan, Indonesia is overwhelmed
by the AIDs endemic, Afghanistan is attempting an election in impossible turmoil, Iraq is in a spiral of irreversible chaos, and yes, the wbcci Lansing rally is under assault.

Look, we have much more in common than the subtle differences erupting in this forum. Aside from the fascination with the peculiar, yet intoxicating, design element of our trailers, we are also fortunate enough to be in the top quarter of 1% of the people on the earth that, by the divine birthright of geographical accident, are able to enjoy them, travel at will, and then return to the comfort of our homes, personal computers, free to engage in this dialogue. For that, I am grateful. The opinions expressed, all worthwhile, are as diverse as the membership and would you want it any other way ? I wouldn't want to participate in an organization where everyone was just like me. You may be pleasant, but I'm repugnant.

As this thread has grown into a fabric all its own, I see only the positive. But if we exhibit the personal charm of an East German figure skating judge, then expect to be surrounded by a sea of Tanya Hardings' whining to relace her skates.

Bottom line:
Be kind to one another.

Dr.C.

" Hello, my name is Charles, I'm 64 y/o, I was in Lansing, and
I have a problem with aluminum......."
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