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Old 02-10-2008, 03:34 PM   #57
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it wasn't the decision, it was the way it was presented.

not looking for a fight or a flame.

good will to all.

kevin



Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I also have 9 years at Burning Man, 8 of them in or involved with a Themecamp. And I understand kevbo's response but I do not completely agree with it.
I have seen many themecamps implode and want to get back to basics. I have done that myself. While I don't necessarily agree with BSC's decision, I fully understand and respect it. It is their choice and they are under no obligation to hold such a camp, nor include all who want to be in their camp.
But I do feel that if there is a strong residual desire to have such a camp, then those folks should and are stepping up to the plate. In the end it seems totally Burning Man'esque to me. I really do think that things are happening as they should, and as they do on the playa. We all know that not all goes our way on the playa and when it doesn't we adapt and find another way to achieve what we need. What happens when you forget that critical piece of your art piece and you are in the middle of building it? You continue and find a new way to make that piece a success.
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Old 02-10-2008, 05:52 PM   #58
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Well, there you have me because I didn't see the way it was presented. And I certainly was not flaming in any way. I still am quite glad that there is a camp out there forming that is inclusive and willing to setp outside the box to make a bigger and badder Airstream themed camp. I am sure it will be wildly successful. There is so much desire for this that it has to be a success given all th epeople that want to help and be a part of it all.



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Originally Posted by Kevbo10
it wasn't the decision, it was the way it was presented.

not looking for a fight or a flame.

good will to all.

kevin
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:39 PM   #59
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Just some random thoughts here.

The following drawings are to scale, with 19' tow vehicles and 18, 28, and 31' Airstreams. The square is 170' on a side, which, I believe, fits between the streets.

This first drawing is the "eye", which provides space for awnings (10' wide dashed green rectangles), as well as some privacy. Trailer #10 is parked "reversed" so that their door opens into the court. The tow vehicles provide a bit of a buffer to the street(s). Everyone except the late comers have pretty much equal access to the court. The court is plenty big for several community shade structures. If the late comers remain hooked up, it would be easy for any participant to depart at almost any time. It helps with the short rigs in the middle going to longer rigs at the "ends" of the "eye."

Click image for larger version

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This is the circled wagons. It's a bit messy when you start including various lengths and tow vehicles, but it parks 19 or so attendees, similar to the above formation. Perhaps a little easier to park and a little more difficult to leave. However, I found it difficult to make a nice "circle the wagons" circle with the tow vehicles in the picture. Close, but not perfect by any means.

Click image for larger version

Name:	circled wagons 3.jpg
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Zep
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:06 PM   #60
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i do believe the main org will require an "access road" down the middle for emergency vehicles. i "believe". someone should check. k.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Just some random thoughts here.

The following drawings are to scale, with 19' tow vehicles and 18, 28, and 31' Airstreams. The square is 170' on a side, which, I believe, fits between the streets.

This first drawing is the "eye", which provides space for awnings (10' wide dashed green rectangles), as well as some privacy. Trailer #10 is parked "reversed" so that their door opens into the court. The tow vehicles provide a bit of a buffer to the street(s). Everyone except the late comers have pretty much equal access to the court. The court is plenty big for several community shade structures. If the late comers remain hooked up, it would be easy for any participant to depart at almost any time. It helps with the short rigs in the middle going to longer rigs at the "ends" of the "eye."

Attachment 54078

This is the circled wagons. It's a bit messy when you start including various lengths and tow vehicles, but it parks 19 or so attendees, similar to the above formation. Perhaps a little easier to park and a little more difficult to leave. However, I found it difficult to make a nice "circle the wagons" circle with the tow vehicles in the picture. Close, but not perfect by any means.

Attachment 54079

Zep
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:07 PM   #61
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with just a little more thought it's obvious that there are a number of required refinements--access at one end (a main gate, if you will) for the poop pumper potentially eliminating the #9 position, space for evaporation ponds, etc.

Over and out...

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Old 02-10-2008, 07:17 PM   #62
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Nice job on the maps.

I like the first drawing for ease of access to everyone.

Last year was my first at Burnstream Court and even as a newbie the group seemed too large. As welcoming as everyone tried to be, I really only got to know my immediate neighbors. My view was of the back of someone's trailer so I really couldn't tell when anything was going on or even if anyone was in camp. The group was so large that there were people I didn't even meet. I understand why it was necessary to rethink and regroup.

I agree that the problem was in the presentation. It would be very understandable if the group wanted to take a year (or more) off to reorganize. To simply say that Burnstream Court would not be getting together as a camp this year and everyone needs to make their own arrangements would be fine. The presentation was such that Burnstream Court would be "limited to the elders and a few of our friends" and no one else was allowed to be part of their group. That seemed quite exclusionary which is the opposite of the all inclusive Burning Man Community spirit.
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:17 PM   #63
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the main purpose of the access road is the threat of high winds and fire (i hadn't thought of the honey wagon or water truck). if memory serves me correctly (yikes!) it was an airstream moho a few years back that went up in flames. if you can imagine a 50+ mph wind and the rig next to you a blaze; an access road makes sense. somewhere up on the main orgs website is the rules for laying out a large basic camp (not the design, the health and safty requirements). k.



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Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
with just a little more thought it's obvious that there are a number of required refinements--access at one end (a main gate, if you will) for the poop pumper potentially eliminating the #9 position, space for evaporation ponds, etc.

Over and out...

Zep
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:49 PM   #64
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The org does not require a road down the middle of the camps but recommends access through large villages - that may be what you are thinking about. This camp will not be the size of the large 400+ person villages.
In this case a road through is not required but will be something to think about as some in the group leave earlier than others and being able to manage the trailers in and out will be an issue.
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:50 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevbo10
i do believe the main org will require an "access road" down the middle for emergency vehicles. i "believe". someone should check. k.
If it's really 170' between the streets, then in the "eye" arrangement everyones' front bumpers (exceptin the "late comers", of course) are directly on a street. This formation is perfect for a "bomb burst" departure. The access "gate" is so the pump truck can get inside the "eye" to the the rear end of each trailer.

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Old 02-10-2008, 09:35 PM   #66
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I will be arriving at Burning Man early as a DMV volunteer and can help with FRS radio contact to give directions to the selected campsite. Just let me know where the "golden spike" (thanks Monte for this term) is put in the ground and we can all march towards it.

Zep, thanks for getting the layout conversation started.
Mark
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:44 PM   #67
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Mark - do you remember discussions about a canopy????
If I had my wishes (and I have not committed to anything yet) I would hope for the 3:00 area for a location. It is quiet and close to where I will be working.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:52 PM   #68
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Kimber:
Don't know of any canopy volunteers yet, but that is a thought. I also like the 3 o'clock area and would recommend it for the proximity to entertainment venues.
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:09 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Mark - do you remember discussions about a canopy????
If I had my wishes (and I have not committed to anything yet) I would hope for the 3:00 area for a location. It is quiet and close to where I will be working.
I brought a canopy last year, but it never got set up. 20x12x10 high. 1-1/2" galvanized conduit poles. It seems strong enough for the wind, if tied down properly--it's not the lightweight 1-1/4" pipe. But it has never been tested in the high winds.

I am willing to bring it again. Fake grass carpet is cheap at HD and might make a nice floor. I'm not sure we want to put up two walls, but Buttercup, your canopy/tent thing did fine last year with semi-porous walls.

Dr Quark
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:18 PM   #70
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Some good thinking going on there about rig placement. Good to get this going in Feb.
In web blogs, I've learned that people seldom read thoroughly anyone else's remarks, so frequently you get mis interpreted or misquoted, misunderstood. Sometimes your print seems to get jumbled after you typed it. Then the flame starts, and everyone is puzzled why the other person doesn't understand. I've begun to accept its alright unless you are discussing parts tolerances in jet engines and rockets and neurosurgery.
I plan on being there, and plan on volunteering where I can. Still early to say on where to be camping yet, could be with the "new first annual rally" .
For those who haven't been to a BM yet, its an amazing event and you really need to read the first timers guide, and again. Dust Storms happen. Lightening happens. Very high wind happens. Double, triple, yes 4 rainbows happen. And that was in one afternoon.
We have some wonderful "old timers" BM volunteers in our midst that can give us great advice, I know of one that could chime in and say "15 years" but she's too modest to post that I've seen yet. (She must have started when she was very young).
Again, good thinking going on. Zep has a good idea there on gathering before zero hour to achieve placement. Maybe go in as two or three smaller groups would help. They don't let you in before 12:01Midnight, and they don't let you come and go willy nilly, and phones don't work past Gerlach. Amateur radio probalby would.
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