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redstart · 07-30-2009, 04:06 PM

Hi all

I have a 1998 34' Ltd with horizontal aluminum propane bottles (40 lb). I need to have them re-valved but don't know where to get it done - has anyone done this anywhere in SW ontario?

I think the Canadian rules are different from the US rules for this too - I have read about getting tanks "recertified" but that doesn't apply in Canada I believe. Has anyone had it done?

Thanks for any help!!

Liz

RickDavis · 07-30-2009, 05:46 PM

I believe the horizontal bottles were exempted from the OPD valve requirement, but it would be best to confirm that from another source.
Even if this is right, unfortunately many refillers won't know that if you don.t have something written to show them.

I am talking of U.S. requirements here

Aage · 07-30-2009, 10:52 PM

Where in SW Ontario are you? Are you talking London, or thereabouts? There's Can-Am RV in London that could put you on to whoever does it there.

The vertical tanks need to be recertified every ten years, can't talk for the horizontal ones, and I'm wondering why they would be different...

85MH325 · 07-31-2009, 07:16 AM

Are your valves broken? OPD doesn't apply to horizontal tanks because it won't work on horizontal tanks. Unless there's a problem with your current valves, there shouldn't be a reason to replace them. If you must replace them for a reason, contact your local bulk LP supplier. They should be able to find you replacement valves.

Roger

redstart · 07-31-2009, 07:42 AM

thanks for all this info. No the valves are not broken but no one will fill the tanks for us. I have called Dowler Karn in St THomas and they are going to check the valve serial number for us and see if OPD valves or any new valves for these tanks even exist. Otherwise, Can Am says they have people buy two new 30 lb steel tanks that are horizontal. They are 300$ each though - if re-valving is less expensive I'd rather do that, than have the hassle of getting refill refused wherever I go. If anyone has any luck refilling these suckers, I'd love to know! Even would travel up north as far as Huntsville. THanks so much. Will post whatever I find out here.

redstart · 07-31-2009, 11:39 AM

So, here's what I found out.

In Canada, I guess there are more rules than in the U.S.

"Propane cylinders must be inspected and re-qualified by a certified re-qualifier or replaced every 10 years in Canada. It’s against the law for an attendant or bulk truck driver to fill an outdated cylinder.
There are identifying marks stamped onto the collar of cylinders identifying the original date of manufacture and any subsequent re-testing dates."
Propane Gas Association of Canada-All About Propane-Safety-Home-Fills

I couldn't find any info online about how exactly tanks are "re-qualified" but according to the propane distributor I talked to, it means getting a new valve put on. Unfortunately, for my 40 lb Worthington aluminum tanks, there are no new valves available, so I do have to buy new 30 lb steel horizontal tanks.

What should I do with the old ones? Scrap?

I guess if you are visiting from the U.S. and your valves are more than 10 years old (check the date stamped on the collar of the tank), fill up before you get here! The recertification sticker won't be any good here.

Thanks everyone for your replies!!

Gene · 07-31-2009, 01:41 PM

I believe US recertification is 12 years, so after 10 years if you visit Canada, you could be in trouble if you don't get recertified before the 10 year date. I believe horizontal tanks need the same safety requirements as vertical tanks so far as tanks go.

Maybe eubank will explain all this as he knows much more about it—he explained it to me.

Gene

jimmini · 07-31-2009, 02:18 PM

For info on US horizontal tanks
Go to Airstream trailer forum on the forums
Click on Squarestreams
Click on all squarestreams
Click on squarestream horizontal propane bottles

**azflycaster** · 07-31-2009, 03:16 PM

Here is the link that Jimmini is referring to.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f419...les-39537.html

olddog299 · 07-31-2009, 10:58 PM

A Google search lead me to Seegers Tanks in 980 Green Valley Road, London, Ontario (519-685-7444) as a Provincially recognized recertification facility. I believe the problem you are running into is the fact your tanks certification has expired. The valves used on the horizontal cylinders are different from those on vertical cylinders.

For what it is worth, have you tried calling Worthington to see if new valves are available from them which meet CSA standards? One can hope...

Good luck!

redstart · 08-01-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddog299

A Google search lead me to Seegers Tanks in 980 Green Valley Road, London, Ontario (519-685-7444) as a Provincially recognized recertification facility. I believe the problem you are running into is the fact your tanks certification has expired. The valves used on the horizontal cylinders are different from those on vertical cylinders.

For what it is worth, have you tried calling Worthington to see if new valves are available from them which meet CSA standards? One can hope...

Good luck!

Thanks Old dog and everyone else for the replies.

The propane dealer I called took my serial number and called his supplier for Worthington who told me that no new valves are available for these tanks.

So, I can't recertify them and I'll have to order new ones. Also 40 lb tanks aren't available anymore I am told so we'll have to get 30 lb horoizontals.

Can anyone actually use these in the US or should I take them to the metal recycle depot?

Shacksman · 08-01-2009, 10:08 AM

Recertification shouldn't require new valves every time, only if they are damaged. You should be able to have the inspection done on the tanks and stamped up to date if they are not damaged. I've had mine done at a propane dealer in New York state, as it's much easier then in Ontario and is acepted everywhere I've had them filled. Mine are upright tanks not horizontal but there are lots of horizontal tanks out there and I don't believe eyeryone throwes them out every 10 years.

redstart · 08-01-2009, 10:41 AM

very interesting shacksman, thanks - did they stamp the date right into the metal? our current date says 7 - 97. I might look for a propane dealer in detroit or buffalo (can't get to NY anytime soon), although I'd hate to get it done and have a fill refused here.

The specific details of the Ontario rules are very difficult to access and I suspect that most dealers just say it can't be done out of not knowing otherwise. I actually found one information document from the TSSA website that looked promising, but you had to BUY it for $100!!! Very frustrating!

My aluminum horizontals are in very good shape and it sure would be nice to keep them though!

85MH325 · 08-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Recertification, at least in the U.S. requires only a visual inspection at the 12 year inspection, and a new inspection date stamped on. After that, I believe that they have to be pressure tested and certified, but your Worthington tanks are worth the effort. They don't rust, so there are no corrosion issues to deal with. I'd think that the Canadian rules would be similar. Ask how horizontal forklift, skid loader, and motorhome tanks are re-certified. None of them are any different from yours except that they don't slide out on rollers.

Roger

eubank · 08-01-2009, 12:10 PM

This is a pretty complex topic, even starting from the US end, where regulations are specific to states (all 50 of them). At least, they are generally all based at some level or another on the same book, namely, NFPA 58, a fairly expensive and densely written manual from the National Fire Protection Association.

For Canada, regulation is different from the codes in NFPA 58, so it's hard to tell what to do based on US experience. And it's hard to tell if regulation is specific to provinces or nation-wide.

Lynn

redstart · 08-01-2009, 12:14 PM

ok here is a dumb question. The collar of my tank has the date 7 -97.

The valve itself has two dates on it, 01 and 97. Is that Jan 97 or does it mean the PO's (from Michigan) had it re-inspected in 2001 and a fresh date stamped? Sorry the pics are blurry.

Whatever the case, I get refused by propane fillers but it would be interesting to know...

I've emailed the Propane Association of Canada - we'll see if I can get an explanation of the regulations from them!

redstart · 08-01-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank

This is a pretty complex topic, even starting from the US end, where regulations are specific to states (all 50 of them). At least, they are generally all based at some level or another on the same book, namely, NFPA 58, a fairly expensive and densely written manual from the National Fire Protection Association.

For Canada, regulation is different from the codes in NFPA 58, so it's hard to tell what to do based on US experience. And it's hard to tell if regulation is specific to provinces or nation-wide.

Lynn

Yes, so true! In Canada the regulations also vary by jurisdiction.

Gene · 08-01-2009, 03:19 PM

redstart, the bottom numbers in the first photo look like "7 - 97" to me which I would think meant July, 1997. Since the "7" isn't crossed, maybe it's a "1".

Gene

Shacksman · 08-01-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redstart

very interesting shacksman, thanks - did they stamp the date right into the metal? our current date says 7 - 97. I might look for a propane dealer in detroit or buffalo (can't get to NY anytime soon), although I'd hate to get it done and have a fill refused here.

The specific details of the Ontario rules are very difficult to access and I suspect that most dealers just say it can't be done out of not knowing otherwise. I actually found one information document from the TSSA website that looked promising, but you had to BUY it for $100!!! Very frustrating!

My aluminum horizontals are in very good shape and it sure would be nice to keep them though!

The new dates are stamped under the old date. On yours the 7 97 is the date they were new July 1997.
I had tanks done just south of Buffalo on Hwy 219 and also in Burlington, Vermont and they have been filled many times here and in the U.S.

redstart · 08-02-2009, 10:25 AM

Thanks everyone for encouraging me to dig a little deeper and save my Worthington tanks. I found that the exact same tanks are still for sale on the Worthington web site. The only info I don't see is the dip tube length (should be 7.0).

So, I now doubt all of the info I posted above - probably new valves ARE available, and I am doubting whether I actually need them!! I am going to investigate further and will let you know what I find out.