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Old 03-13-2018, 12:48 PM   #15
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1970 29' Ambassador
Santa Rosa , California
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Furnace Piezo ignition

Hi All,
Okay, deeper in... Everything is looking good so far, although I still have not found the plate with any model info on it. I have only found a sticker that says "Suburban".
I have taken apart the fan assembly and removed the main burner to allow better access/visibility inside. So far, no visible separation, cracks, etc. I have also gotten to know some of the components, including the ignition system. In my experience, the piezo electric ignition always generates a spark as one part snaps past another. In this case, the lever that activates the Clevite piezo "box" ignitor just moves back and forth.
This seems strange to me because these (piezo) ignitors will reportedly go 10,000 times or so before quitting. There is no indication that this furnace has even been used 100 times (which, considering our climate, is very possible). I read some info on Google Patent about a safety feature on (possibly) this device which prevents it from firing unless a latch is moved (although I do not see any latch -- at least not yet). Not sure if I am barking up the right tree here, but thought I would ask if there is something to the startup process that includes two steps for the ignition, or should pushing that rod result in a "snap" every time? It is easy enough to replace this with a manual or battery-operated ignition system, but I like knowing how things work, so I am checking it out.
Regardless of appearance, I will be taking it the unit to our local service center to verify or disprove what I find.
And whether I buy a new furnace or not, the coach will be equipped with screens over the intake and exhaust ports on the outside, and a carbon monoxide monitor inside.


Thanks,
David
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:05 PM   #16
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Just added carbon monoxide detector to the list.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:03 PM   #17
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1993 34' Excella
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo Girl View Post
I'm not putting my old one back in.
Too rusty & too scary.
I had it bench tested & it worked fine but I don't trust it.
I think you made a good decision for peace of mind and ease of use and serviceability. Waking up dead would ruin my day.

I replaced my NT28 with a new NT30. I took the old base and used it for a plenum so I could reuse the ductwork connections. Raised the new furnace an inch or so with lumber so that the outside air inlet and exhaust holes line up. A new furnace does have a parasitic small 12v draw.

The cheapest source I found was Palomino RV, but you have to know exactly what you want to order.

I am sure there are threads on the subject.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:42 PM   #18
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Piezo ignitor question

Don't wanna lose the thread, so re-posting....


Hi All,
Okay, deeper in... Everything is looking good so far, although I still have not found the plate with any model info on it. I have only found a sticker that says "Suburban".
I have taken apart the fan assembly and removed the main burner to allow better access/visibility inside. So far, no visible separation, cracks, etc. I have also gotten to know some of the components, including the ignition system. In my experience, the piezo electric ignition always generates a spark as one part snaps past another. In this case, the lever that activates the Clevite piezo "box" ignitor just moves back and forth.
This seems strange to me because these (piezo) ignitors will reportedly go 10,000 times or so before quitting. There is no indication that this furnace has even been used 100 times (which, considering our climate, is very possible). I read some info on Google Patent about a safety feature on (possibly) this device which prevents it from firing unless a latch is moved (although I do not see any latch -- at least not yet). Not sure if I am barking up the right tree here, but thought I would ask if there is something to the startup process that includes two steps for the ignition, or should pushing that rod result in a "snap" every time? It is easy enough to replace this with a manual or battery-operated ignition system, but I like knowing how things work, so I am checking it out.
Regardless of appearance, I will be taking it the unit to our local service center to verify or disprove what I find.
And whether I buy a new furnace or not, the coach will be equipped with screens over the intake and exhaust ports on the outside, and a carbon monoxide monitor inside.


Thanks,
David
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:42 PM   #19
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ID plate is missing

Hi All (or Any ,
There is no identification on this furnace beyond it saying Suburban. There may have been a badge, but it is gone and only holes in the case remain.
At this point (and through the help of this forum), I am pretty sure that it is one of the dread NT-22 units. I am proceeding with caution, although all components so far (including the treacherous crossover tube) are fine. As I am putting things back together, I am using all new exhaust gasket material and the highest temperature Permatex where appropriate as an added precaution/sealant.
I still have the question about the igniter. I may be one of the few people that has ever bothered to take one of these apart, but I cannot figure out what EVER made it snap or click... there is a lever that is actuated by the push rod, but it does not seem to have anything broken off not does it seem to contact anything that would "snap" against the container with the crystals inside.
I did get a tiny shock when cleaning the dead spider away from the part with the crystals in it. I was using a screwdriver and must've generated enough friction...
I still may junk this whole thing, but I would sure like to know how this part igniter worked. Do they all "snap"?


Thanks,
David
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:29 PM   #20
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Looking good...

Hi All, Anyone,
The furnace is back together and ready for its bench test. Replaced any gaskets and also added a thin layer of Form A Gasket as added insurance. Bought a grill-type battery operated electronic igniter and Carbon Monoxide detector with a readout in ppm in addition to the alarm feature. Hope to test it tomorrow.


David
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:14 PM   #21
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Did you fire it up yet?
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:30 AM   #22
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Testing the ancient furnace made of stone and wood

Hi Din,
I am sad to say that I have not. Life has interfered with my beautiful plans, including jury duty, car issues and various other inconveniences. The furnace sits on the bench, un-bench-tested...

I appreciate your post. Perhaps I can re-gain my pre-Life focus and test it today. No matter when it is, I will report the results -- good or bad.


Thanks,
David
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:25 PM   #23
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It's (kind of) ALIVE !!!!!

Worked on the furnace bench test today. Had both gas and 12 volt hooked up, then realized that the gas connections that I had cobbled together for the bench test were leaking. Bummer.

Removed the gas, and hooked up the electrical. Runs perfectly. Tomorrow will be the real test though...



David
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:53 PM   #24
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1970 Death Trap furnace is alive...kind of

Hi Di, All,
After disassembly, a thorough cleaning and reassembly (including careful inspection and reinforcement by way of RTV sealant on the crossover tube), I bench-tested the furnace again today with the propane tank (using the regulator) as well as 12v.

This time, the fan spins perfectly, as before. The gas, on the other hand, is a no-show -- at least so far.

I read enough of the instructions to know that the fan shuts off after 3 minutes of no heat, and that is what happened. That entire time was spent with me trying to light the pilot and burner assembly by using a bbq grill top of igniter. No joy...

I will try to go back and find the path for the gas. I don't think gas even made it to the pilot assembly, but I will try again and sniff around after the fan shuts itself off.

If any of you would be so kind as to remind me of the "firing sequence", I'd be grateful. I left the cap on the end near the igniter "probe" because I read posts on here about flames shooting out of the sealed combustion area when it first lights. That is also why I am using a bbq igniter. If that is a bad idea, please let me know.


Thanks,
David
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:20 PM   #25
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Our 69 Ambassador is a NT30
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #26
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1970 Death Trap furnace, part Deux

Hi Dre,
I am not sure why you mentioned that your furnace is an NT-30. Ours is unlabeled. Are you suggesting that maybe it is also NT-30? It could be...I will try to get a better handle on it by reviewing the manual.

I found the manual for a bunch of models and realized that I had not followed the start up sequence at all. I will try again, this time getting the pilot light lit before any other phase (thermostat, etc.)...


Thanks,
David
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:48 AM   #27
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It's Moving Day!

Hi DGG, Dre, All,
I have started a different thread (but relating to the same topic) over in Interior Restoration/Furnaces et. al. I should've posted there to begin with, but I am clearly still learning how to use this fantastic site.
One last note here... I now have the electrical and gas hooked up and have gotten the pilot to light. Crossing the wires for the thermostat gets the fan going nice and fast, closing the sail switch. What does NOT happen yet relates to the solenoid. It will open if given 12v as a test, but it is not opening as part of the startup sequence. I will be investigating further with the multimeter, and also looking more closely at the wiring diagram. Maybe I re-assembled this thing with a wrong connection...

Thanks for all the help here -- hope to hear from you over in Interior Restoration/Furnaces !
David
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:46 PM   #28
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Sounds like you are on your way to figuring it out. I mentioned that the 69 Ambassador that we have had a NT-30 because I thought you were still trying to figure out what was in your 70 Ambassador. Figured that they might have used the same since it is the same body design and size.
Ours still had the metal label riveted onto it. tall label
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