Unused furnace for 20 years, what now?

[snpotratz]

The furnace in my "new" '72 airstream literally hasn't been turned on in 20 years. We have small heaters (Catalytic?) mounted to the 'Stream, one in the bathroom and one by the door, but I would like to get the central heat working as well. I haven't even tried to fire the thing up yet in case there is something I should before that. Any thoughts?

Steve

[ALANSD]

I would open it up, clean out the inside, look at the burner to see if its intact or rusted. Check all the parts in other words.
Then if it all seems like its where it is supposed to be, try to light it, with someone nearby to shut the gas off if it does not light up.
I rebuilt the burner in my old one ( an 82) and it worked well after not being used a long time.
They rusted due to moisture from condensation.

[CanoeStream]

Good question, Steve. I know Suburban furnaces had recalls in the mid-70s and that affects my '74. Take a look here. Peace of mind comes cheap when the alternative is a carbon monoxide problem. And a functioning furnace is the first answer for how to keep the pipes from freezing.

You could start researching a new furnace at www.campingworld.com or http://www.rvaddons.com/ -- only given as an example -- there are many other sources.

[Chuck]

If you're uneasy about it, I would take it out (not hard) and bring it to an authorized repair facility and have it bench tested/tuned up. Then you can decide how to proceed.
a replacement furnace is expensive, and takes up a whole bunch of space.
For 20 bucks, you could get a ceramic heater from the hardware store. My furnace is working ok at the moment, but I just got the ceramic, because my wife complains that the furnace is loud, and it cycles on and off quite often. So I decided to try the little ceramic heater this past weekend. we were in sub-freezing temps, too...(I don't know exactly how cold...but there was frost on the flamingo every morning...). Well, the ceramic worked like a champ. I had the furnace going, but at bedtime, I turned on the ceramic, and the furnace stopped coming on...basically, I let the ceramic take over, and it kept the trailer comfortable all night, quietly, and without over-cooking anyone. (like my catalytic heater does...works great, on 0 electricity...but the lowest setting is too hot! but for boondocking, its the only option.).

what's that? the furnace runs on 12v + gas? well...yeah, but it takes SO much of the 12v, the battery wouldn't likely last a whole night. So for all practical purposes, you can't use it without electric hookups anyhow. unless you have a huge array of batteries and/or solar cells, etc...which I don't.

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by chuck

For 20 bucks, you could get a ceramic heater from the hardware store. My furnace is working ok at the moment, but I just got the ceramic, because my wife complains that the furnace is loud, and it cycles on and off quite often. So I decided to try the little ceramic heater this past weekend. we were in sub-freezing temps, too...(I don't know exactly how cold...but there was frost on the flamingo every morning...). Well, the ceramic worked like a champ. I had the furnace going, but at bedtime, I turned on the ceramic, and the furnace stopped coming on...basically, I let the ceramic take over, and it kept the trailer comfortable all night, quietly, and without over-cooking anyone. (like my catalytic heater does...works great, on 0 electricity...but the lowest setting is too hot! but for boondocking, its the only option.).

Chuck,
I agree about the ceramic heater. Just curious, where did you place during the night; forward or aft?

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by klevan

Chuck,
I agree about the ceramic heater. Just curious, where did you place during the night; forward or aft?

I put it in front of the galley, facing aft. pretty much in front of where the furnace is. I figured it wouldn't interfere w/ the furnace's thermostat that way. (thermostat is at the rear of the trailer...on the bedroom/bathroom partition wall). Since this was an "experiment"...if the electric wasn't keeping up, and it got really cold back there, the furnace would come on and even things out. But since it worked out ok, I suppose now I could put it at either end of the trailer.

[overlander63]

Honestly, they are relatively inexpensive, compared to everything else we put in our coaches. I would get a new one, and not have to worry about it for the next decade or two.

[ALANSD]

what type ceramic do you have Chuck?? I have a small heater from Sharper Image or something like that its the little giant mini box thing they still sell...

[Dbraw]

If anyone anywhere has a question or problem with a Suburban furnace, call Neal Stultz at this number,423-775-0437. He checked our 35 year old furnace and advised us to not use it. Didn't charge anything. He is an expert, honest and reasonable with his work. He lives in Dayton, TN. Suburban furnaces are made in Dayton, TN.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by ALANSD

what type ceramic do you have Chuck??

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...1UM&lpage=none

I went with this one because it is cheap, small, square (easier to store) and "ceramic", which, from what I could find, means that it doesn't get as hot as coil type heaters, so it uses less energy and is less hazzardous than other types.
(plus, my Grandma had one like it that we used to heat her guest bedroom when we visited...for some unknown reason, the house's heating system didn't provide enough heat for that room. that little box kept it quite comfortable in that drafty old Vermont victorian...in the winter!).

I had a Suburban authorized tech tell me not to use my 35 year old furnace, too. Of course, this was after he spent $125 worth of labor to clean and tune it up and get it working perfectly . I dropped it off at the repair place, in the hands of a clueless clerk; "tune up, please. its dirty and its running rich". duh...ok. they hand it off to the tech who is hiding in the back, and does what he's told. So I went to pick it up, and the clerk says, "that'll be $125...and there's a note here that says you shouldn't use it".
"Why not?"
"don't know..."
I insist on talking to the tech for an explanation.
after finally getting face-to-face with the tech, I asked. all he could say was, "because its 35 years old".
"Is is working properly?", I asked.
"yes", he said.
"leaking CO? at risk of spontaneously bursting into flames?"
"no, its fine. Its just old".
"It was 35 years old before you spent 2 hours on it", I said. "if there was nothing you could do to it that would, in your opinion, make it safe to use, then why on earth would you proceed with the work??"

"The work order said to clean it/tune it up. so I did.".



I'm still dumbfounded by this, several years later.
but anyway...I took it home, re-installed it in the trailer, and it works fine. I won't run it without a CO detector. I wouldn't run a brand new one without a CO detector, either, for that matter.

next problem was re-installing it...I needed a new thing-a-ma-jiggy to attach the intake/exhaust port properly to the skin. The old one had rusted out and was unsalvageable. Replacements are no longer made. Called a bunch of places for "new-old stock"...anything I could get...nobody had anything. So I called Suburban tech support to see if a part from a newer model might work. They were very nice. But they said the same thing: "you shouldn't use a 35 year old furnace".
"why not?"
"because its 35 years old".


anyway, I got a used part from someone here on the forums, so I'm all set. but the point is, nobody thinks you should use a 35 year old furnace, but no one seems to have a good reason why. They seem to be scared to death of 'em...probably just liability concerns.

[silver buffalo]

We use a "Mr. Buddy" heater in the 310. It's a ceramic heater powered from one of the small bottles of propane like you use on a camp stove. It has a low oxygen cut off and a hi - low setting. On low a bottle of propane lasts about 6 hours and abut 3 hours on high.
The furnace still works in the motorhome but this is much quiter and works great down to about 40 deg.
I think I bought it at Tractor supply but I have seen them in the Campers World catalog also, around $80.00.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by silver buffalo

We use a "Mr. Buddy" heater in the 310. It's a ceramic heater powered from one of the small bottles of propane like you use on a camp stove.

that is not a ceramic heater; it is a "catalytic" heater.

[dmreilly10000]

The furnace in my "new" '72 airstream literally hasn't been turned on in 20 years. We have small heaters (Catalytic?) mounted to the 'Stream, one in the bathroom and one by the door, but I would like to get the central heat working as well. I haven't even tried to fire the thing up yet in case there is something I should before that. Any thoughts?

I would definitely replace it. The risk of "waking up dead" some morning is just too great. If you decide just to clean it up and use it, don't use it at night or any time while sleeping.

Also, a good carbon monoxide detector should be in EVERY travel trailer.

One thing I have alway done is to crack a window open near the bed, no matter how cold it is outside. More insurance that you don't wake up dead.

[silver buffalo]

Chuck - I guess my terminology is wrong. I thought since the heater puts out heat thru a ceramic grid that is heated by a propane flame is would qualify as a ceramic heater.
What makes it a catalytic heater?

[dmreilly10000]

Originally Posted by silver buffalo

Chuck - I guess my terminology is wrong. I thought since the heater puts out heat thru a ceramic grid that is heated by a propane flame is would qualify as a ceramic heater.
What makes it a catalytic heater?

I found this at Catco Catalytic Heater company website: (I don't know anything about this brand, but it was about the only explanation I could find on the Internet)

How they work:

By definition, a catalyst is any substance that alters the rate of a chemical reaction; during the process, the catalyst is neither consumed nor destroyed. In a catalytic heater, the chemical reaction of oxidizing (burning) natural gas or propane is slowed to about 65% of normal, resulting in a safe, flameless source of radiant heat. In order to become activated, the catalyst bed must be preheated to approximately 250°F; CATCO catalytic heaters are normally equipped with 12 or 120 volt low wattage elements to preheat the catalyst and start the reaction. Other starting voltages are available.

CATCO catalytic heaters are carefully designed to produce the most efficient heat possible. The only by-products of combustion (other than heat) are carbon dioxide and water vapor. Carbon monoxide, a result of inefficient combustion, is not measurable. Every CATCO catalytic heater is operated for one hour and carefully tested to ensure that components are functioning, that the heat output is within specification and that there are no leaks. This ensures that our customers receive the very best quality product that we can produce, one of our continuing goals.

Generally, catalytic heaters can be used in any application requiring a safe source of heat. In addition, they have the advantage of being able to perform without the use of a constant source of electrical power. This makes them ideal for locations where power in not available on a continuous basis.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by silver buffalo

Chuck - I guess my terminology is wrong. I thought since the heater puts out heat thru a ceramic grid that is heated by a propane flame is would qualify as a ceramic heater.
What makes it a catalytic heater?

I don't think thats a "ceramic" grid. the catalyst is woven into a fabric pad.
the rest..."what dmreily said".

except: there are some models that don't use any electricity at all, which, to me, seems like the most important purpose of these things: non-electric heat. if it requires electricity...even only a little, its purpose has been defeated, imo. But thats another discussion...
I think there's a kit you can get that'll allow you to hook the heater buddy into your rig's propane lines, and free you of the 6hr limit. I like to sleep for up to 8 hours...especially when I'm on vacation!

great device, though. I have one in my trailer, and it works great. But the electric ceramic has advantages for me, when there is an unlimited supply of 110v ac. When there isn't...catalytic is the only way to go.

[silver buffalo]

Chuck - The manufacturer http://www.mrheater.com/productdetai...catid=41&id=24 calls it a ceramic grid. That's way to hi-tech for me. I would have called it a white thing that get's hot.

[Chuck]

Hmmm...well, I stand corrected.

notice, though, that they still don't call it a "ceramic heater"...even though parts of it may be ceramic.
maybe a better name for the little cheap-o unit I bought would be "ceramic-electric". In that sense, they're referring to the type of electric heating element. If you search on Lowe's site for "ceramic heater", you'll see all the electric ones like I posted earlier...but you won't see the "mr. heaters"...which they also carry. those are found under "propane heater".

[SafeHarbor]

Well, when referring to "ceramic heaters," I think first of the inexpensive jobs sold at Wal-Mart that run on AC. Then another type runs on propane, like the heaters that fit on top of a cylinder and heat objects and people by infrared rather than heating the air directly. A similar type of heater is also found suspended from the ceiling in car repair shops. The other type of propane heater is the catalytic heater in which the catalyst is in a mesh as used in RVs. The Olympian "Wave" heaters are an example of this type.

I have an older Olympian "6100a" heater in my '79. I used in last March in Toledo when it got down to 23 degrees overnight. I had the front street side window and the galley window on the bumpers, and it was toasty warm in the front of the trailer when I woke up.

By the time I made it to Cleveland, I had learned how to start the furnace.

The kind dmreilly quoted above is an oil-industry device for keeping pipeline valves and stuff from freezing. It requires electricity to preheat the catalytic component and would not be a kind used in a travel trailer.

Steve, the furnace also circulates heat around the storage tanks. If you want to stay WET when it's COLD, you need the furnace.

If you plan to to winterize it and store it over the winter, this is all a bit moot.

Lamar

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by chuck

I think there's a kit you can get that'll allow you to hook the heater buddy into your rig's propane lines....

Anyone know what this is?