Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-19-2006, 04:18 PM   #1
3 Rivet Member
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Currently Looking...
Coeur d alene , Idaho
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 159
How to check for propane leaks?

The copper pipe feeding my hot water tank looks pretty rough, I don't smell any propane but how can I check it for leaks. I have used water with soap in it and look for bubbles- what else could I do? Thanks, Don
glacierrunne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 04:29 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
that's plenty good enough. Nose and soap bubbles covers it all.
__________________
Zep@Charmedquark.net
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 07:22 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Tarheel's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited S/O
Moyock , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,010
Images: 21
I found leaks at the International with soap and water that the "safety team" with their leak detector missed. Its a good way to check.
__________________
Keep the shiny side up.
WBCCI # 348
Past Region 3 President
Past President Tidewater Unit 111
Rick Bell in "Silverbell"
Tarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 08:38 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
GreatPumpkin's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colville , Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,033
Images: 70
Try not to beat the ignorance out of me to hard.....


I know this is absolutely frowned upon, just wondering the scientific? reasoning. Why is checking for leaks with a match not a good idea? - (Whoa slow down and let me finish, don't everyone jump to tell me how ignorant I am yet)

After all, you light the pilot on your stove. You light the pilot on the fridge, and you light a pilot on the water heater. Those are all basically a “leak”, albeit a deliberate and very small one. I’m sure there is some kind of “check valve” to prevent the flame from backing up the supply line in those appliances, but the tanks are similarly protected – or not?

Bracing for the backdraft now - o.k. unleash!
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)

"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
GreatPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 09:36 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Tarheel's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited S/O
Moyock , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,010
Images: 21
If there were a small leak the flame would flare-up some and you could tell that there was a problem. If there were a larger leak ( I know you can smell the propane) you could get an uncontrolable fire. Most soap and water will not burn and therefore takes all the fun out of finding a leak, but sometimes you can have too much fun!
__________________
Keep the shiny side up.
WBCCI # 348
Past Region 3 President
Past President Tidewater Unit 111
Rick Bell in "Silverbell"
Tarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 09:48 PM   #6
3 Rivet Member
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Currently Looking...
Coeur d alene , Idaho
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 159
Thanks guys, This thread was more fun then I thought it would be. I did buy a $ 2.69 bottle of a liquid called "Gas Leak Detector" from the hardware store. It will bubble to show a leak soooo I am sure I just bought some expensive soap! Thanks for now, Don
glacierrunne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 11:14 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
Why is checking for leaks with a match not a good idea?
The real reason is that an undetected leak can build up a concentration of LP gas in a confined space over a period of hours, days or months. Even outside on a calm day, an external leak of the heavier-than-air LP gas can form a low cloud over a prolonged period. When mixed with oxygen from the air in the correct proportion, an explosive mixture is created. This link describes why this mixture is more efficient than TNT for explosive effect:
http://ej.iop.org/links/q24/x,PITHgq.../d5_23_017.pdf
About 30 years ago we were sailing off the coast of England in the wooden sailing yacht I had just finished building. My wife was down in the cabin, brewing a pot of tea. She had earlier used the LP gas stove for cooking, and had turned off the gas at the knob, but inadvertently left the knob slightly "on". A gradual build-up of gas had developed. When she lit a match to relight the stove, an explosion occurred. She emerged from the cabin with no eyelashes and singed eyebrows, but fortunately no serious injury. We were very lucky. Since then, sensibly priced 12 volt LP gas detectors have become available, and our yacht is fitted with two sensors and an alarm.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 11:49 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
GreatPumpkin's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colville , Washington
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,033
Images: 70
Good info link...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst
The real reason is that an undetected leak can build up a concentration of LP gas in a confined space over a period of hours, days or months. Even outside on a calm day, an external leak of the heavier-than-air LP gas can form a low cloud over a prolonged period. When mixed with oxygen from the air in the correct proportion, an explosive mixture is created. This link describes why this mixture is more efficient than TNT for explosive effect:
http://ej.iop.org/links/q24/x,PITHgq.../d5_23_017.pdf
About 30 years ago we were sailing off the coast of England in the wooden sailing yacht I had just finished building. My wife was down in the cabin, brewing a pot of tea. She had earlier used the LP gas stove for cooking, and had turned off the gas at the knob, but inadvertently left the knob slightly "on". A gradual build-up of gas had developed. When she lit a match to relight the stove, an explosion occurred. She emerged from the cabin with no eyelashes and singed eyebrows, but fortunately no serious injury. We were very lucky. Since then, sensibly priced 12 volt LP gas detectors have become available, and our yacht is fitted with two sensors and an alarm.
Nick.

I understand that if there was a buildup there is a potential for explosion, but theoretically you should be able to smell that much propane. You wouldn't need to determine if you have a leak or not.
In removing the pile of rust that used to be a furnace from my AS, I put a shutoff valve on the end of the supply line, and then capped that. I then turned on the propane and waved a lit match over the joints and determined that I do have a infinitely small leak where the supply goes into the shutoff. I got a light smaller than a pilot light, but enought to show a definite leak. Meanwhile my wife happened to wander through and thought I had lost all my marbles . However there was no harm no foul. For now I'll remove the incoming line and cap it off under the trailer. As an added safety precaution when we are camping I simply turn off the gas at the tanks each night. (We haven't replaced the furnace yet, next years project)

I've experienced the explosion effect when lighting my backyard grill one time. I was lighting it with the lid closed (ignoring the instructions to never to never do that ). Well it didn't light right away, so when it finally caught, it had enough buildup that it blew the lid open. It/I made enough noise my neighbors looked over the fence to see if I was still there Lesson learned.
__________________
AIR 12256
Currently Looking
2001 Dodge Ram 1500
2001 Honda XR650R
Currently Looking...for an Avion Truck Camper (or a Classic Argosy MoHo)

"In regione caecorum rex est luscus." GP
GreatPumpkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 02:07 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
I understand that if there was a buildup there is a potential for explosion, but theoretically you should be able to smell that much propane. You wouldn't need to determine if you have a leak or not.
Unfortunately this is not my experience. The LP gas is heavier than air, and behaves in some ways like a liquid, rather than a gas. The gas in our yacht pooled in the bilges and up to about my wife's waist level, where she lit the match for the hob, but it did not reach as high as her nose, as she said she smelled no gas. Darwinian theory suggests that sea-going yachtpeople will eventually grow olefactory organs at the end of their toes!
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 06:00 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,367
Images: 38
A couple years ago I thought it prudent to have the pros do a complete check up of our 23's LPG system. The RV dealer's service guy had a meter that he hooked into the LPG system. He explained it was very sensitive to any leaks. Even though we smelled no gas he found 3 or 4 leaks in various locations throughout the trailer. All leaks were at couplings in the LPG lines.

We will spend the $75. for the LPG safety check often.
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 09:25 AM   #11
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
Images: 260
another test you can do is to start with your normally pressurized system, and the gas on at the tanks, all gas valves set to "on", but all gas appliances turned off...light a stove burner, to make sure all is flowing normally. then shut it off. Then go outside and shut off the propane tanks.

then come back to the trailer a half hour or an hour later, and see if you can light the stove. It should light and burn for a few seconds just off the pressure in the lines. If there's a leak anywhere, that pressure will escape, and you won't be able to light a burner.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 01:22 PM   #12
3 Rivet Member
 
classic67's Avatar
 
2005 31' Classic
Hughsonville , New York
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 151
Images: 5
Question about the Fridge.

Glad I came across this thread. We pick up our new AS on Monday from the dealer and I will ask about detection sensors, shutoff valve loations and any other tips where to look for leaks inside the AS.

Our dealer told us to plug the fridge into electric the night before a trip so the fridge is cold and than turn on the LP until we arrive at our desitination. I tend to think it will be better to pack food in coolers until we arrive at the campsite to plug in to electric than travelling with the LP tanks on. Which brings a question to mind. How long on average does it take to get the fridge cold starting from normal room temperature?
__________________
Den
classic67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 10:05 PM   #13
3 Rivet Member
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Currently Looking...
Coeur d alene , Idaho
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 159
Chuck, that's a good test I'll do that one this weekend. Thanks, Don
glacierrunne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 10:56 PM   #14
4 Rivet Member
 
S C Streamer's Avatar
 
1964 17' Bambi II
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 319
Images: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst
The real reason is that an undetected leak can build up a concentration of LP gas in a confined space over a period of hours, days or months. Even outside on a calm day, an external leak of the heavier-than-air LP gas can form a low cloud over a prolonged period. When mixed with oxygen from the air in the correct proportion, an explosive mixture is created. This link describes why this mixture is more efficient than TNT for explosive effect:
http://ej.iop.org/links/q24/x,PITHgq.../d5_23_017.pdf
About 30 years ago we were sailing off the coast of England in the wooden sailing yacht I had just finished building. My wife was down in the cabin, brewing a pot of tea. She had earlier used the LP gas stove for cooking, and had turned off the gas at the knob, but inadvertently left the knob slightly "on". A gradual build-up of gas had developed. When she lit a match to relight the stove, an explosion occurred. She emerged from the cabin with no eyelashes and singed eyebrows, but fortunately no serious injury. We were very lucky. Since then, sensibly priced 12 volt LP gas detectors have become available, and our yacht is fitted with two sensors and an alarm.
Nick.
All the boats that I've sailed on, all had alcohol stoves for this very reason.
In fact I can't recall ever seeing a LP stove on a sailboat.

Mark
S C Streamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 11:09 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by S C Streamer
All the boats that I've sailed on, all had alcohol stoves for this very reason.
In fact I can't recall ever seeing a LP stove on a sailboat.

Mark
Mark, we in the UK must just be cheap. LP gas stoves are by far the most common stoves in UK yachts. They are far cheaper than alcohol stoves, which tend to be fitted to yachts intended for long distance foreign cruising. Our regulations insist that the gas bottles be stored in a separate gas tight locker with bottom drains overboard above water level, and that armoured flexible pipes or solid pipes link to the stove. There are still too many explosions caused by such systems. We built our first cruising yacht when we had plenty of dreams and very little money. My wife found our stove while walking past a dumpster in the street!
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 06:19 AM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
S C Streamer's Avatar
 
1964 17' Bambi II
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 319
Images: 13
Quote:
We built our first cruising yacht when we had plenty of dreams and very little money.
Hi Nick,

Always have admired people that go to sea on a boat built by their own hands.

BTW alcohol stoves are a real pain to use and not very effecient.

Mark
S C Streamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 09:26 AM   #17
LEV ZEPPELIN
 
crazylev's Avatar
 
2004 19' International CCD
Chicago , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,047
Images: 10
Years ago, I hired a plumber that must have sniffed to much pvc cement. His test for a leak in a just assembled natural gas line was to place his lighter near the connection.

He did find a few "leaks" in the form of a very small flame.

I guess the only thing dumber was that I was standing there watching him do this....

Jonathan
__________________
Sometimes I wish I were living in the stone age. Then I would know I'm the smartest person in the world.
crazylev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2006, 10:28 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
Well thats a reason your LP lines are outside under the trailer not between
the bellypan and the floor.Only inside to reach the appliances.The soap
method is what I used on my line connections after I installed the new water heater ,I did leave in the shutoff lever valve under the double bed where the
water heater is ,so I can shutoff the gas when lights out for the night.

Scott
scottanlily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2006, 10:55 PM   #19
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,615
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by classic67
Glad I came across this thread. We pick up our new AS on Monday from the dealer and I will ask about detection sensors, shutoff valve loations and any other tips where to look for leaks inside the AS.

Our dealer told us to plug the fridge into electric the night before a trip so the fridge is cold and than turn on the LP until we arrive at our desitination. I tend to think it will be better to pack food in coolers until we arrive at the campsite to plug in to electric than travelling with the LP tanks on. Which brings a question to mind. How long on average does it take to get the fridge cold starting from normal room temperature?
Many people will tell you it is perfectly safe to travel with the frig on gas. I am not one of those people. I have a 31 year old frig and it was 118 degrees last week, it takes all night to get that unit cold.
Here is what we do:
Run the unit over night to get it cold
Pack it with cold items before you leave
Add a few Blue Ice things for the road
Get it running (we use gas, no shore power) when you get to your campsite.
Refreeze the Blue Ice things for the trip home.
We just came back from a 5 1/2 hour (each way) trip and used this method. Half of the trip tempertures were 90+ and some was over 100. We had no problems and everything was cold when we arrived.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2006, 07:15 AM   #20
4 Rivet Member
 
1979 31' Excella 500
Detroit Area , Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 498
Images: 43
I would like to add that I use a similar procedure to help out my challenged Dometic during all hot days. Namely, I re-freeze all my blue freezer packs during the night and then put them in strategic places in the fridge during the day if the temps are in the 90's+ to help keep the fridge colder during the days.
wacnstac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why you should check everthing on a used Airstream. thenewkid64 Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 3 09-08-2002 12:14 PM
Check your aging A/C shroud Jim Clark Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 2 07-25-2002 10:30 PM
Check , Check and Re-Check a new refer saga. thenewkid64 Refrigerators 13 06-24-2002 09:54 AM
new airstreamer halloey Our Community 3 06-17-2002 10:39 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.