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05-09-2015, 10:39 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB International
Trent Woods
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,120
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Wayne, A regulator is just a spring loaded pressure reduction device. It obstructs the flow to reduce the pressure. The regulator at the tank does this to reduce the pressure to the lower pressure required by the propane appliances on the trailer.
Your grill, in most cases, is built to use the full tank pressure and reduces the pressure, through a regulator, to the lower pressure required by the grill. It also has a knob to adjust the flow for different size flames. If you leave the grill regulator in series with the tank regulator, you have enough flow restrictions that you will probably never get the full flame the grill was intended to have. Some people remove the grill regulator, but that is not a good solution unless you have a separate valve at the grill to control the flame intensity. Most marine grills have a low pressure kit that replaces the grill regulator with a simple control valve.
Larry
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05-09-2015, 10:45 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
Carlsbad
, California
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 706
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Indeed
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05-09-2015, 10:53 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,668
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My trailer did not have the accessory gas connection so I added an inline Tee fitting and a quick disconnect. It works well with my Camco Olympia 5500 SS RV gas grill. I did have to turn down the flame adjustment on the grill as even on the lowest setting the grill was too hot.
You may discover, as I did, that when the grill is operating there is insufficient pressure to operate the water heater. We may have had the cooktop on at the same time, but I would have thought that since we were not running the furnace there would be plenty of pressure available.
After fixing dinner one night we found the water heater light on. I turned it off and back on and it has been fine ever since.
Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
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05-10-2015, 10:10 AM
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#24
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3 Rivet Member
2017 30' Classic
Lexington
, Kentucky
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 105
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GammaDog: When your are running both your Honda generators at the same time do you get full power in both generators. My assumption was that the 1/4" propane line of the Airstream's aux port would not supply enough propane to run two EU2000's at full power.
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05-11-2015, 08:06 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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Wlanford: I was concerned about that too since even the feed lines on the trifuel kits I used are 3/8". There are 3/8 quick disconnect kits available, but the port on my EB25 is the 1/4" type so I dropped $75 on 1/4" parts to see if my concerns were real. The test I ran to find out was to run each gen on its own 20lb LP bottle without QD fittings. My setup is a 2000i and a 2000i companion. The LP fuel block on one of these generators is very touchy. A fraction of a turn in either direction from its proper setting causes the generator to run rough, so I believe that even a slight disturbance in LP flow pressure would be detectable. And might even stall that generator.
I started both generators, connected the trailer to the companion and turned on the AC. Both generators went to full power (I had the Ecomode settings turned on). The AC blew cold. Then I added QDs into that setup between the regulators and the feed lines for the generators. Same result. I made up a 1/4" QD "tee" using one male Sturgis 250 and two females on a standard brass 1/4" tee block (from my local Ace hardware store). I ran both Hondas off a single 20 lb bottle... no detectable difference in sound or function. The last test was to put a 10' Camco QD hose between the trailer port and the QD tee. Same performance. Remember that fuel line distance measurable reduces pressure and flow rate. 10' of rubber hose in a system that is basically 1/2 PSI could have been a deal killer.
Based on other posts in this tread (thanks to all for sharing!) I realize there are two tests I need to do. 1. Use my multimeter to check voltage. I'm not sure how these generators would perform if they were starved for fuel. Maybe the human ear isn't the best tool to test for that. Especially my ears which my wife says don't work so well anymore. Knowing I still have 110+ volts would be a comfort. 2. Turn on appliances until I detect a change in the generator performance and see what happens. If the trailer system is 3/8" lines and the choke point is the QD on the front of the trailer it is possible that I could also run the water heater, cooktop or what have you. As a practical matter, being a Floridian, I need two Honda 2000s for AC. I don't expect to need both running with the furnace. If off grid in the frozen north, I might want one 2000 to charge the batteries while running the furnace. The fridge switches to 120 when available, so I would not need LP for both fridge and generators, either. Ditto the water heater since it is LP or 120.
I hope that helps. Making this work has been a lot of fun for me. We head west in three weeks. On the road for 5 weeks in June and July. Looking forward to that stress test.
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05-12-2015, 10:20 AM
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#26
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan@LED4RV
Marshal has a pick list chart of all the parts it takes to do what you might want to do.
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Dan -Would you please provide a link to this site. I've tried searching thru Google, but haven't been able to find this information. Thanks!
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05-12-2015, 10:34 AM
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#27
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,403
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I had a Marshal valve that Dan showed on his post for years on my SOB. It was a great safe alternative for those who carry grills. I just left the valve on the trailer when I sold it since it was many years old and wasn't made (at the time) for the newer gas fittings. I now carry a small 8 lb tank with me along with a long hose that connects to where the gas bottle connected on my Weber Q. That 8 lb tank is small and is easy to carry. I easily get a couple of seasons of cooking with it.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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05-12-2015, 10:36 AM
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#28
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaDog
Wlanford: I was concerned about that too since even the feed lines on the trifuel kits I used are 3/8". There are 3/8 quick disconnect kits available, but the port on my EB25 is the 1/4" type so I dropped $75 on 1/4" parts to see if my concerns were real.
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GammaDog - If I'm reading your post correctly I think we have nearly the same setup. My Companion generator, however, is gasoline powered.
I believe that the female propane QD on my AS is 1/4", and the male OD inlet to my propane powered Honda 2000i is 3/8". I've looked everywhere for a hose to connect the two fittings. I'm almost to the point of replacing the 1/4" female QD on the trailer to a 3/8" out of frustration. I think that I might want to keep the 1/4" connection on the trailer for connecting some other propane appiiance in the future.
Do you have any words of wisdom that you would care to share about how you made the transition from 1/4" to 3/8"? Thanks!
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05-13-2015, 06:12 AM
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#29
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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Glock: I think of the brass fitting section of my hardware store as the erector set from hell. However, there are fittings (not necessarily hoses) that connect any to any in the brass world. I'm the case of my setup, the starting point was the Female Quick Disconnect on the trailer. That's an MB Sturgis model 250 Low Pressure Propane disconnect. The end point was the brass attachment on the end of the 3/8" rubber feed hose for my LP conversion kit. Specifically, that's the fitting that connects to the high pressure to low pressure regulator that came with the kit and which attaches directly to the tank (as opposed to the demand regulator that is attached to the generator and acts in place of the carburetor used in gasoline operation). I believe the fitting on that hose was a 3/8" female flare fitting (flare fittings have a 45 degree shoulder to act as a seat while pipe thread (PT) are typically squared off and the threads are the sealing point. I can pull mine apart and confirm if it's important to you... however, the fittings you need there are a 3/8" male flare to 1/4" female PT. Here is a link to a range of fitting like that. Sometimes it takes a second fitting to complete the process. In this case a 1/4" coupling would be needed since these are 3/8 male flare to 1/4 male iron pipe. http://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metal.../dp/B0070TUF7C
The other piece I needed was the male Sturgis 250 to connect where that adapter fit. Once installed (I use the yellow natural gas grade Teflon tape on joints... especially the pipe thread type since the threads are the seals... test with soap bubbles or gas leak detector which is the worlds most expensive soap bubble) connect th male Sturgis to the port on the trailer or any other QD of that type and you should be good to go.
My gen set rides on a 4'x2' piece of 1/2" plywood on wheels I the front of my truck bed under a hard tonneau. The two generators are on the outside and strapped to the board. Two 20 lb LP tanks are in the middle set in 8" holes tandem (fore and aft). The exhausts point back and controls on the front. When I need them I roll the platform to the tailgate, hook up whatever gas source(s) I'm using, connect the electrical umbilical to the trailer and fire it up. I chain and lock the generators to the truck in both the storage and use locations.
Let me know if that helps or if I answered a different question. When I'm on my PC I can post pics if you want to see that... Might save 1,000 more words.
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05-13-2015, 06:35 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
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Remember, on Alll connections....always use the YELLOW pipe thread tape, not the white. And ALWAYS bubble check for leaks.
Did I mention ALWAYS bubble check..?
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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09-01-2015, 06:36 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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For Wlanford and anyone else interested in this topic: An update!
We left off weeks ago with a question about whether the LP port on an Airstream could run two Honda 2000's under load with 1/4" brass connections and if so would other gas appliances in the trailer also run.
We are heading out tomorrow for three weeks, so I hooked up everything and ran a test. I hooked both generators to the LP port on the front of the trailer using a 10' quick disconnect hose, a tee fitting made from 1/4" brass parts and each generator's feed hose which came with the propane conversion kits (which are tri-fuel kits from Propane Carbs: https://www.propanecarbs.com/honda-e...onversion.html). That's 13 feet of flexible gas tubing and three disconnects between the port and each generator! Both generators had eco throttle "off". Only one LP tank was online. It's a 30 pounder on the front of the trailer and it is completely full.
I plugged my multimeter on the AC Volts mode into the kitchen outlet and fired everything up. The voltage read between 120.4 and 120.7 with no load (perhaps the converter was charging the batteries... but that's it).
I started the AC. It came on fine and the voltage remained 120.something.
I started the gas water heater (no heater had been running... the heater was stone cold and I checked to see that it started successfully. The burn on my fingers from opening the access panel said "yes"). No change in voltage.
I started all three burners on the range. No change in voltage.
The fridge was on "auto" so it would have added electric load, not LP during this test.
This isn't an engineering statement, since I'm not an engineer. This is a practical, user test and I had no indication that the generators were fuel starved while under heavy load and with four other LP consuming appliances running on the trailer.
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09-10-2015, 09:40 AM
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#32
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
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Kewl
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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12-28-2015, 03:43 PM
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#33
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2 Rivet Member
2015 28' International
Pittsburgh
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 46
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Wayne,
Thank you for researching the answer to this dilemma. It has driven my husband and I nuts for months. I contacted MB Sturgis and they were very helpful and are sending the hose to a campground that we'll visit next week. Hopefully we'll finally be able to grill!!
Again, thanks for posting all the pertinent info.
Fran
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08-29-2016, 07:24 PM
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#34
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2 Rivet Member
2016 19' International
Orange County
, California
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaDog
For Wlanford and anyone else interested in this topic: An update!
We left off weeks ago with a question about whether the LP port on an Airstream could run two Honda 2000's under load with 1/4" brass connections and if so would other gas appliances in the trailer also run.
We are heading out tomorrow for three weeks, so I hooked up everything and ran a test. I hooked both generators to the LP port on the front of the trailer using a 10' quick disconnect hose, a tee fitting made from 1/4" brass parts and each generator's feed hose which came with the propane conversion kits (which are tri-fuel kits from Propane Carbs: https://www.propanecarbs.com/honda-e...onversion.html). That's 13 feet of flexible gas tubing and three disconnects between the port and each generator! Both generators had eco throttle "off". Only one LP tank was online. It's a 30 pounder on the front of the trailer and it is completely full.
I plugged my multimeter on the AC Volts mode into the kitchen outlet and fired everything up. The voltage read between 120.4 and 120.7 with no load (perhaps the converter was charging the batteries... but that's it).
I started the AC. It came on fine and the voltage remained 120.something.
I started the gas water heater (no heater had been running... the heater was stone cold and I checked to see that it started successfully. The burn on my fingers from opening the access panel said "yes"). No change in voltage.
I started all three burners on the range. No change in voltage.
The fridge was on "auto" so it would have added electric load, not LP during this test.
This isn't an engineering statement, since I'm not an engineer. This is a practical, user test and I had no indication that the generators were fuel starved while under heavy load and with four other LP consuming appliances running on the trailer.
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When you say you ran a 10' quick disconnect, by any chance was that the Camco 57282? I'm planning to order the same one to connect my QD directly to by generator.
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08-30-2016, 05:53 AM
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#35
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
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To xxxreme... That looks like the Camco 1/4" QD LP hose I have. Like I said earlier, the combination I run exceeds the supposed capability of my trailer's LP system... But it works in practice for me. It may not fail gracefully (like if I run an LP tank dry) or have some other issue I have not experienced yet, so I'm not endorsing exceeding the limit of the trailer's external LP port. Also, I do not leave any generator running unattended (like at night while sleeping, or by leaving the campsite).
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08-30-2016, 03:42 PM
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#36
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2 Rivet Member
2016 19' International
Orange County
, California
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaDog
To xxxreme... That looks like the Camco 1/4" QD LP hose I have. Like I said earlier, the combination I run exceeds the supposed capability of my trailer's LP system... But it works in practice for me. It may not fail gracefully (like if I run an LP tank dry) or have some other issue I have not experienced yet, so I'm not endorsing exceeding the limit of the trailer's external LP port. Also, I do not leave any generator running unattended (like at night while sleeping, or by leaving the campsite).
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Sounds like exactly what I need!
I am sure there are built in safety cushions with manufacturers recommended limits. I think I will pick up a Kill A Watt Meter so I can safely monitor the draw on my generator while running everything. Thanks for playing guinea pig on this one for us
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