?driving with fridge on?

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by safari57

...Most of those who leave theirs on do so because they were told to do so by the sales guys at the dealership when given their run-through.

I realize that this is a place for opinions so I am not going to get all worked up about this ill informed statement. I suppose there might be "some" owners that do this but even that would be quite a slam at them. I try to make decisions based on as much information as I can get. So far, I have yet to see one single example of a disaster caused by a fridge running while going down the road. And, suppose that there was one out there somewhere, would one case preclude me from using my fridge in a way that it was designed and engineered to be used? Seeing a moho burn to the ground doesn't mean it was the result of a fridge problem. Most big fires are caused by gasoline and/or electrical problems.

If you are using a gasoline engine to move down the road, you probably should stay home, at least according to your logic. There are lots of actual examples of fires caused by faulty carburetors and fuel lines where trucks and RVs burn to the ground. Talk about a risk!

Again, and now I am starting to sound like Larry Flint, I would like to read about any case where a fire or explosion was CAUSED by the running of a fridge on the road or even at a filling station. I would like to offer up a million dollars, but I don't own a magazine.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

For those of us who don't want the risk....

Ah yes, let us consider the "risk".

Risk: "the chance of loss or perils to the subject matter of an insurance contract: also : the degree of probability of such loss." Websters New Collegiate Dictionary

We take risks every day. Simply driving to the store has a certain amount of risk yet we do not hesitate to do this on a daily basis. The issue in dealing with risk is understanding the whole concept of probability. What are the chances that I will get in a car accident (pretty good actually) versus having my trailer explode because I left the fridge on (virtually non existent). If you really want to worry, consider that partially filled gas tank riding just behind you. That is a real bomb ready to go off, just ask anyone involved with the Ford Pinto crashes of years ago.

If you choose to turn yours off, more power to you. If you don't want to deal with the "risk", you will probably sleep better at night. Good on 'ya.

P.S. I sleep like a baby every night even on my original mattress.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by bhutch74ly

I'll try fixing with a shield or baffle. I suspect the previous owner cut the bottom of the compartment to increase ventilation to the back of the unit. I would like to see pictures of an original refrigerator compartment to see if this is the case. The bottom of mine is partly open and sealed with hardware cloth.

That sounds like the same setup in my '75 Argosy. There's a fairly large hole in the subfloor covered in coarse wire mesh, and a similar hole in the belly pan below that. I initially had a problem with mine blowing out on the road, but found that the regulator that was on the trailer when I bought it was delivering propane at a bit under 9 inches of water at the refer, and the spec is 11 inches of water. A new regulator solved my problem.

[bhutch74ly]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

That sounds like the same setup in my '75 Argosy. There's a fairly large hole in the subfloor covered in coarse wire mesh, and a similar hole in the belly pan below that. I initially had a problem with mine blowing out on the road, but found that the regulator that was on the trailer when I bought it was delivering propane at a bit under 9 inches of water at the refer, and the spec is 11 inches of water. A new regulator solved my problem.

Thanks, I recently installed a new regulator but I don't have a clue how much pressure I have at the appliances. Any ideas on a simple way to check this to see that I have 11 inches of water pressure at the refer?

[dznf0g]

You could buy or make a simple manometer. I'm sure there are instructions on the net.

[safari57]

Originally Posted by aftermath

I realize that this is a place for opinions so I am not going to get all worked up about this ill informed statement. I suppose there might be "some" owners that do this but even that would be quite a slam at them. I try to make decisions based on as much information as I can get. So far, I have yet to see one single example of a disaster caused by a fridge running while going down the road. And, suppose that there was one out there somewhere, would one case preclude me from using my fridge in a way that it was designed and engineered to be used? Seeing a moho burn to the ground doesn't mean it was the result of a fridge problem. Most big fires are caused by gasoline and/or electrical problems.

If you are using a gasoline engine to move down the road, you probably should stay home, at least according to your logic. There are lots of actual examples of fires caused by faulty carburetors and fuel lines where trucks and RVs burn to the ground. Talk about a risk!

Again, and now I am starting to sound like Larry Flint, I would like to read about any case where a fire or explosion was CAUSED by the running of a fridge on the road or even at a filling station. I would like to offer up a million dollars, but I don't own a magazine.

Aftermath - my choices are not based on some poster on a thread making statements they cannot back up or some ill informed individual who bases their decision on their "best guess based on their years of travel" but instead are based research I did about traveling with propane on with professional associations, including my insurance company (who I'm mandated by our government to insure through). You may not agree with it, but by following the guidelines of the people who deal with propane and risk assessment as a business I believe I am using common sense. You of course will do what you are comfortable with - I will follow the guidelines these professionals have recommended: (note that the bolding is mine, I also changed the print color to black in cases where the original was red or orange)

The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia

ICBC | trailer5.pdf

Before leaving a campground
• Close the valves for the sewer and gray water and unhook the septic system.
• Unhook the water hose and make sure that you have only enough water
with you to get to your next stop. (Extra water means extra weight.)
• If your RV has slide-outs or awnings, make sure they are retracted and fastened.
• Unhook the power line.
• Make sure that roof vents are closed and TV antennas and satellite dishes
are retracted.
• Check around inside to make sure that all items are properly stored and
there is nothing loose on a counter or table.
• Make sure that the fridge is locked.
• Turn off all pilot lights and all propane tanks. (bolding is mine)
• Put up the steps.
• Make sure that trailer jacks and supports are raised and secured.
• Move the picnic table if it’s in your way.
• Check around the campsite to make sure that nothing has been left behind.
• Make sure you have all your maps and know which way to go.
• Conduct a pre-trip inspection as described in chapter 3 of this guide.
• Check fuel gauge. Make sure you’ve got enough fuel.

And there is this:
Canadian Propane Association
Propane Safety | The Canadian Propane Association

RVs and Campers



If you and your family use a recreational vehicle (R.V.) or camper it is important to ensure all users are familiar with the manufacturer's written operating and maintenance instructions. If you are renting, ask for safety instructions. Use the same care and diligence when tending to the propane systems in your R.V. or camper as you would for those in your home or business. With respect to regulations specific to the use of R.V.s and campers in Canada:

• In many provinces, regular inspection of the propane system on board by a qualified service technician is mandatory.
• In most provinces, it's law that all appliances and pilot lights must be turned off and cylinder valves closed while travelling. (bolding is mine)

Contact the provincial Motor Vehicle Branch where you own, rent or operate an R.V. or camper to inquire about requirements that may apply to you.

And this from the same group (cut from a much larger document located here under Storage and Handling Safety
Reports & Fact Sheets | The Canadian Propane Association


Know the Rules for Transportation
The Transportation of Dangerous Goods (TDG) regulations dictate strict requirements for transporting propane, which include among many other things, specific training, documentation, and placarding.




Securing Propane Containers on R.V.s and Campers

1. Never use, store, or transport cylinders in the passenger space, or living area, of your R.V. or camper. When travelling in an R.V., all appliances and pilot lights

1. must be turned off, and all cylinder valves must be closed. (bolding is mine)

So for me, given my insurance company does not recommend towing with propane on, which could become an issue if I'm in an accident, and also based on the other organizations who note that turning the propane off is required, I'll continue to do so. I think anyone who is concerned should contact their insurance company and follow whatever guidelines they have.

[Ag&Au]

Why this got stirred up again is beyond me. This has been discussed in so many threads so far.

A few points.
1. It is not necessary to all do it the same way.
2. If someone posts a idea contrary to yours it is not necessary to dispute it.
3. Let the OP weigh the opinions and pick the one he chooses.

Based on analysis of the posts in this thread, I would like to suggest the following compromise:

All Canadians drive with propane off.
All Americans drive with propane on.
If anyone asks this question again, first ask them where they live and then give them the appropriate answer.

Now lets find something interesting to discuss. Even polishing aluminum sounds more exciting.

Ken

[Skater]

Originally Posted by safari57

So for me, given my insurance company does not recommend towing with propane on, which could become an issue if I'm in an accident, and also based on the other organizations who note that turning the propane off is required, I'll continue to do so. I think anyone who is concerned should contact their insurance company and follow whatever guidelines they have.

Keep in mind that insurance companies are doing the same thing we are - sitting around, going, "Yeah, that could happen! Tell them not to do it so we have a way to deny the claim!"

To be fair, though, there was a picture posted a while back of a camper that was involved in an accident that damaged the water heater, and was leaking propane badly - the regulator also failed to do it's job and stop the excessive flow. But even then there was no fire - they caught it and shut off the tank valve.

Originally Posted by w7ts

Now lets find something interesting to discuss. Even polishing aluminum sounds more exciting.

Good idea! Let's talk about what hitch we should use, what tires we should use, how fast we should go, whether we use the shower in the camper, and what brand of batteries we should buy!

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Why this got stirred up again is beyond me. This has been discussed in so many threads so far.

A few points.
1. It is not necessary to all do it the same way.
2. If someone posts a idea contrary to yours it is not necessary to dispute it.
3. Let the OP weigh the opinions and pick the one he chooses.

Based on analysis of the posts in this thread, I would like to suggest the following compromise:

All Canadians drive with propane off.
All Americans drive with propane on.
If anyone asks this question again, first ask them where they live and then give them the appropriate answer.

Now lets find something interesting to discuss. Even polishing aluminum sounds more exciting.

Ken

Guess I have to move South as I will drive with propane on and built baffals to keep the pilot lights on. I even drive with the furnace on in cold weather. Then again I can't move South as I don't even insure my trailers and that's a big NO NO in the South. If you see me coming, better stay way back

[safari57]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Why this got stirred up again is beyond me. This has been discussed in so many threads so far.

A few points.
1. It is not necessary to all do it the same way.
2. If someone posts a idea contrary to yours it is not necessary to dispute it.
3. Let the OP weigh the opinions and pick the one he chooses.

Based on analysis of the posts in this thread, I would like to suggest the following compromise:

All Canadians drive with propane off.
All Americans drive with propane on.
If anyone asks this question again, first ask them where they live and then give them the appropriate answer.

Now lets find something interesting to discuss. Even polishing aluminum sounds more exciting.

Ken

Your points 1,2 and 3 are right on Ken.

I can see why people give up offering their opinions and doing the background research - they then spend their time having to justify their every comment. Very frustrating and disappointing.
What is funny is that when I was providing the background I did not include the US information which it would appear the Canadian associations either copied or came to the same conclusion on their own - I realized that I was going to get caught in this perpetual "it doesn't matter what the industry says" situation. As you note, we don't all have to do it the same way.

Now if I can just find my safety goggles I can get going on polishing my - what do you mean I have to wear safety goggles while polishing????

Enjoy the day. I think I'll go camping and have some stress free fun.

[MrUKToad]

It's curious how these debates spring up on here. I'm not complaining, I think that it's good these things get aired, more than once if necessary.

It seems to me that there is a degree of risk in everything we do. As individuals we assess that risk, maybe call on other information to help the assessment, then decide if we're prepared to accept it or not. Me, I choose to tow my Airstream with the propane valves off; it's my decision (aided by some sage old trailer types I've met and one particular incident I witnessed a few years ago) and I'm content with that. Others choose to tow with propane and appliances on, and that's fine. I've enjoyed hearing their reasons for doing so, I don't necessarily agree but it's up to them.

The majority here prefer to tow with propane and appliances on; a number, who are in the minorty, don't. It would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything, eh?

[xrvr]

The Canadians are the ones who allow an rv dealer to set up their vehicles to tow way over their capacities which is more dangerous than traveling with the gas on,,,so go figure. Jim

[Gene]

When I looked through Woodalls to see what Provinces and Territories required the propane be turned off, only Manitoba and Nova Scotia showed up. Every Woodalls listing campgrounds has a section on rules in all states, provinces and territories.

Gene

[Len n Jeanne]

Obviously we all have our own comfort levels. We turn off the fridge while traveling, partly due to the risk factor, but also because we truly see no need to leave it on. Our Dometic fridge seems to be really well insulated. We freeze several of those blue gel packs, and then put them in with the food while traveling. Once we're camped, we turn on the fridge and refreeze them, so they're ready for the next travel day. Real simple. We still have room in the freezer for small food items. It's not like we need to load up on ice cream. We've never had food spoil with this system.

The BC ferries require that all RV propane be shut off, even when there is no "below decks" on the vessels for vehicles. One exploded on the Kootenay Lake ferry a few years ago.

On the road near Aspen, CO--enjoying gorgeous fall colours,

Jeanne

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

The Canadians are the ones who allow an rv dealer to set up their vehicles to tow way over their capacities which is more dangerous than traveling with the gas on,,,so go figure. Jim

Tut tut Jim, you should know better than to raise the spectre of tow vehicles and their "ratings" on this propane thread. I won't bite this time, suffice it to say that I'm much less happy towing with my propane on than I am towing with a TV set up by a respected professional.

[MrUKToad]

Oops!

Leaving the campground the other weekend, I forgot to switch off the propane. Once the shore power was off, the fridge kicked into LPG mode and carried on working whilst I drove the 200kms home.

Despite what I've said before, nothing went wrong (as you knew it wouldn't) and we arrived safely, completely free of fires and explosions. I'm still not going to tow with the propane on, unless I forget again of course, but I will concede that the risks are not that great.

Good job I didn't need to call in at the gas station though.......

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

On the road near Aspen, CO--enjoying gorgeous fall colours,

Jeanne

The road to McClure Pass always has great fall "colours"—Colo. 133.

I believe all ferries require propane be shut off, though some of the ferries in Yukon and NWT may not. Those are more like barges with a motor.

Gene

[StagrLee]

Its a bit of stating the obvious, but the need for refrigeration in Canada is less than in the USA.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by StagrLee

Its a bit of stating the obvious, but the need for refrigeration in Canada is less than in the USA.

Sometimes, yes.

Mind you, I do live in the semi-tropical Southwestern Ontario, which is way further south than a lot of places in the USA

[Gene]

It can get up to 90˚F in northern Canada and interior Alaska.

Gene