Diesel VS Propane

[Darkspeed]

Propane 91600btu per gallon @ $2.86 = 32000btu per $1

Diesel 136600btu per gallon @ $3.80 = 36000btu per 1$

Ok so there is a little more btu per $ with Diesel..
it wont explode..
smells rank..
more expensive furnace , range , water heater..
easier to find in the field..
generator is a little louder..

I am at the point that I am trying to decide on a fuel to run

furnace
range
water heater
generator

Fridge is solar

I know the boating world like diesel because they have it and they dont like exploding at sea.

Any thoughts here....

[cosmotini]

Here is a good thread to read: Diesel Powered Trailer.
Seems to be zackly what your looking for.

[Harry W]

Diesel fuel is great for your tow Vehicle. For your furnace, generator, etc, the smell, exhaust fumes and general mess involved with diesel fuel makes it undesirable for those applications, IMHO

[tpi]

I have a small diesel generator, and the exhaust is stinky. I don't mind the smell of larger diesel engines, but smaller ones seem to burn the fuel in a way that the smell is "enhanced" and not in a good way.

Propane equipment produces very clean exhaust. Maybe diesel gains some advantage if you put very high hours on your gear.

[Darkspeed]

Originally Posted by cosmotini

Here is a good thread to read: Diesel Powered Trailer.
Seems to be zackly what your looking for.

Thanks - just got finished reading the whole thread

[Wsmith]

Did you take into consideration your price on diesel seems to be road use? Farm diesel or off road diesel is probably about .70 less per gallon. It has a red dye and will show up on a exhaust pipe if used in a truck.

[r carl]

Diesel is a mess and stinks.

[Kosm1o]

If smell is the primary issue, you can burn biodiesel and I can affirm from lots of experience that it does not stink. The odor of the fuel is not at all like diesel and when burning is like cooking french fries in a deep fryer. I used it in a sailboat with great success.

[Darkspeed]

Thanks kosm1o, everything run as well on the bio? Any failures? Clogs?

[Wabbiteer]

Maybe I am scared of being cold - last winter was 90-inches (double avg) and 4-1/2 months of snow, a true six months of winter.

I chose diesel since the tanks are built-in, fuel is easily transportable & available 24/7 - and being wholly separate from propane means both can be used simultaneously or as back-ups for each other - no law against having a nice range top in propane and a cat heater, etc.. If one chooses they can have instant propane hot water and hydronic heat with a diesel burner back up, that is in turn backed up by electric resistance heating.

Your figures for diesel is low - 142,800 BTU, then subtract 1% for ultra-low sulfur fuels so 141,370 BTU per gallon - so 37,200 BTU per dollar - or 42,800 BTU for non-road-use diesel.

But the thing you're omitting is the efficiency of devices - a new LP furnace or RV water heater maybe can reach the high 70%'s in perfect tune but any older one is 55-70%, then there is the electrical draw & wiring limitations.

Diesel mostly will be more exacting in its metering and control of heat since the systems have to be more elegant unless you're using a drip into a hot pan vaporizing burner.

And there is no law that the exhaust stack can't toss the diesel above roof height - there are enough motor coaches with diesel heat and power that fog the surrounds at waist height already.

[Darkspeed]

Wabbiteer what diesel systems do you use? Any guess on efficiency?

I really like the idea of ejecting the propane from the AS

[Kosm1o]

Originally Posted by Darkspeed

Thanks kosm1o, everything run as well on the bio? Any failures? Clogs?

No problems with anything. Bio diesel is used quite a bit here in Michigan. Ann Arbor buses use it because of the improved odor. Ferry service by some on the great lakes use it as well. The only issue I hear of is in cold weather. Bio diesel gels up at a higher temp than regular diesel. If you know that, you just need to be sure the bio diesel you are using is treated for cold weather. Here in Michigan BP is the best source and they sell the blend of 20% bio diesel 80% diesel and pure bio diesel. Surprisingly both have no odor.

[Darkspeed]

So the only good range I can find is a Wallas 87d @ $4500 eeek

[Wabbiteer]

No lie, these things are complex and can be expensive to repair.

I don't have a installed system, I have shelves worth of parts so far - things I've sniped at auction or collected at surplus or business liquidators. I'm committed to diesel to the tune of about $2200 so far but that covers zoned heat and hot water with the option of solar hot water heat add-on.

Espar Sizing 2

You just had to ask about efficiency... Book values on heat output transfer into coolant at lowest setting is 73% without any secondary exhaust heat scavenging - which I have equipped into the system. I've got a Hydronic10, though the 12 model has a lower idle output that might be nice...

http://www.itrheat.com/hydronic.html

ITR makes a nice package for a diesel HW heating system, that $2200 rolled into one of those would simplify things considerably!

[Jammer]

There are several difficult problems with using diesel in place of propane for a trailer.

The most difficult problem is that diesel appliances are not readily available in a size and configuration, and price point suitable for a trailer. For example, there aren't any diesel refrigerators, since the yacht makers use electric ones. While cooktops and ranges are available (DickinsonMarine.com - Marine Stoves), they are expensive, and the ranges have sizes and clearance requirements that are problematic for a trailer install.

Parts availability is also a problem since these are specialty products that have an extremely limited dealer network in the U.S.

In general diesel systems are sensitive to fuel quality and age while propane systems are not. Diesel in the tanks and lines that is more than a year old can pose serious problems that require dis-assembly of appliances and burners to correct.

Diesel cooktops and ranges require outside combustion air and exhaust while propane ones do not. Some diesel appliances are set up for gravity (rooftop) venting which means that the exhaust stack uses up valuable space and adds to the complexity of the installation.

In general diesel systems perform poorly in extreme cold because the fuel viscosity changes and will form wax or gel. The problems start at about 20 degrees for petroleum diesel, and at higher temperatures for biodiesel. There are ways around this but they add cost and operational complexity. You can use #1 diesel but it has a much shorter useful life and isn't readily available year around. There are tank heaters, but they require electricity. There are fuel line heaters, but they don't address gelling, only filter plugging.

[Darkspeed]

I have not done the numbers but I wonder how diesel genset - battery bank - inverter - ac appliances compare to straight diesel appliances

[Darkspeed]

good thread on the wallas cooktop - diesel like smoklessjoe

Opinions on a Wallas stove

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Darkspeed

I have not done the numbers but I wonder how diesel genset - battery bank - inverter - ac appliances compare to straight diesel appliances

EarthRoamer takes this approach in part. Instead of a diesel genset they have a 2nd alternator on the truck engine, an approach better suited to motorhomes than trailers.

[Harry W]

Regarding off road diesel with the red dye, we were on a "Garmin Tour" that was taking us to the center of Page, AZ, when we came upon a checkpoint where they checked your diesel fuel for the red dye. Any gas powered vehicle was passed through, and any diesel powered vehicle was checked by taking a sample from the tank. The punishment for failing the test or refusing to cooperate is unknown, but apparently big brother is watching.

[Darkspeed]

Haha.. yeah but would they know to check the AS for diesel?