Diesel Powered Trailer

[dmreilly10000]

Originally Posted by Kevbo10

having spent my youth on fishing boats up and down the oregon coast i don't see a mention of one of the biggest draw backs in my opinion of diesel fuel... the smell. marine systems have been around forever... and so have early camp / backpacking / mountaineering stoves. they all have the same draw back over time. everything in the cabin will eventually stink of that lovely fuel, regardless of how carefull you are.

i'll stick with propane ) but hey, what do i know...

I totally agree with you. I have owned 3 Mercedes diesels and 1 Datsun diesel pickup truck. I love diesel vehicles, but I don't like diesel smell. NO WAY would I want any diesel fuel inside the closed confines of my Airstream. I can just imagine waking up late at night and not being able to go back to sleep because you smell the faint smell of diesel fuel.

Also, stovetop burners would give off a smell like a kerosene lamp. That stinks too.

If diesel fuel smell doesn't bother you, it may be an interesting and efficient heating system. In my case, I think I have become less tollerant of the smell the longer I owned diesel vehicles.

I'm also sticking with propane, "the clean fuel".

[bhayden]

Hey Sergie, what ever became of the investigation of using bio-diesel?

[Streamer1]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Streamer and Kajtek1:

The diesel hydronic heating system was completed and tested many, many months ago but I didn’t start to use in until the other day, while still working on the final stages of my reno.

See posts # 383 and #386 in my main thread here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...-18448-28.html


There are many, many photos in the thread you are on right now, including photos of the diesel cook top in post #67. Go back.

Kajtek, your rain missed my parade.



Sergei

Hey Smoky, good job on the trailer! Now you need to relax from renovation stuff and get back to having fun (full-time if you are retired!)

[GreatPumpkin]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

...your rain missed my parade.


Sergei

Nice succinct answer. Keep up the good work. Following your thread, waiting for each new update. You work is superb.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...-18448-28.html

[safari 28]

Interesting and always good to see invovation. In the end I like all electric as an alternative, clean and with recent updates regarding battery and inverter technology alongside solar and wind power generation I see it as the future for both rv and residential/commercial applications. I would like to see Airstream offer an all electric model using the above alongside a built in generator and fuel cell either gas or diesel. They need to move in a direction of leadership in this area for the industry.

[Kajtek1]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Kajtek, your rain missed my parade.



Sergei

Yes I did.
But than I've seen lot of people putting $20,000 worth of work into $8,000 project.
There is something in human (especially men) character, that we have to prove it to ourself.
I am guilty as charged as well. In my teen-ages I put estimated 2000 man-hours on building a flying 30" copy of biplane Boeing Stearman. It come very nicely and I got some prizes at championships till strong wind blow took off the tension from controlling wires.......
But I guess that teach me the lesson to put my time in something of higher value. California housing appreciated very nicely.
I did RV restoration/upgrade as well. 4 years ago I bought 1972 Prevost conversion. Took me 6 months of full time job to restore it to usable level (it is nice to be self-employed and afford to have slow times thanks to CA real estate).
But I could never afford to spend $2.4 Mil for new Prevost. Now with the Airstream my goal is to repair everything I can staying original.
So don't mind my sceptism. I admire your enthusiasm. Really.

[SmokelessJoe]

Hello to recent correspondents to the thread:

dmrielly, your rain also missed my parade.

Owning 4 trucks won’t necessarily help you appreciate that the WEBASTO furnace AND cook top in my trailer are FULLY SEALED units. There isn’t any way for fumes to enter the trailer. (The furnace itself is mounted OUTSIDE, on the tongue.)

You and others on the thread who mention odour are probably thinking of older marine equipment, not the advanced technology we have now.

Streamer1, I’m in the finally stages of the rebuild and hope to be out on the road come summer. And stay out there for a couple of years if all goes well.

Bernie, nice to hear from you again. I reported,in #57 above, that bio-fuel was not recommended by the manufacturer.

Bio-fuel isn’t a big issue with me. The Webasto furnace only uses .16 of a gallon per hour on HIGH and .08 on REDUCED burn.

The cook top has similar low usage. The SPRINTER not as dramatic, but low for a truck.

GreatPumpkin, glad that you continue to enjoy these threads.

Safari 28, I agree with you.

All-electric is certainly possible, especially in my case were I could have built solar panels and a battery bank, generator and inverter into the tow vehicle.

That solution might have been even better than my diesel set up but I didn’t think of it in time. I was wrong to let my feeling that I couldn’t understand battery/inverter technology control my thinking. Today, with the Internet, you can learn enough to understand almost anything.

Kajtek1,

There is something in human (especially men) character, that we have to prove it to ourself. (sig)

Maybe you meant like in iPod or iPhone? Or Google or YouTube? Or Fed-Ex??

A great cancer researcher died in Boston last week. He used to say, “ When you succeed they say you were persistent. When you fail they say you were stubborn”.

Anyway, hope all your California real estate doesn’t get rained on.

Sergei

[Kajtek1]

Don't worry about my CA real estate. Even if it drops 50% I'll still be 250% ahead. Not to mention that the real estate in my area keeps on climbing. Just no longer in 2-digits.
Some bio-diesel experience. I just tried it on my vehicles. Even Mercedes doesn't allow more than 5% of bio-diesel in their vehicles, I run several tanks on 100% bio. The same of Ford PowerStroke. I think some manufacturers forbids using bio-diesel simply because they are too lazy to do any research and do it just in case. Bio-diesel fuel stunk much more than petrol diesel IMHO, but burning fumes were much nicer, so I think it might benefit in the trailer. Obviously using it in low temperatures would be an issue.
Point is, that you can try bio-diesel without any modification, so what is there to loose?

[dmreilly10000]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Hello to recent correspondents to the thread:

dmrielly, your rain also missed my parade.

Owning 4 trucks won’t necessarily help you appreciate that the WEBASTO furnace AND cook top in my trailer are FULLY SEALED units. There isn’t any way for fumes to enter the trailer. (The furnace itself is mounted OUTSIDE, on the tongue.)

You and others on the thread who mention odour are probably thinking of older marine equipment, not the advanced technology we have now.

I have changed my opinion. You are right. Since writing my response, I have gone to some of the links showing the modern equipment you intend to use. I was unaware of the fully sealed units. I was thinking of old technology like used on boats or where you brought the jug of diesel fuel into the trailer and filled up an appliance's fuel tank while spilling half of it on the floor.

Another thing I just noticed, you live in Canada. You need all the heat you can get if you want to use your AS in seasons other than summer. Here in Mississippi, it's not really an issue. (even though it was a "brutally cold" 20 degrees F. this morning). A good air conditioner or 2 are much more a pressing issue here.

Keep us posted.

[SmokelessJoe]

I was talking to Technical Support at WEBASTO in Fenton, Michigan a few weeks back. It turned out that the guy on the other end of the line was a fellow Airstreamer.

When I started telling him about my hydronic heating system he said “ Did you hear that we’re coming out with a similar packaged unit??”

Apparently it will be an all in one unit, a box conatining the diesel furnace, water heater and a blower unit to circulate warm air.

He said they expect strong interest as New York State has ( is going to?) ban propane in RV’s.

I didn’t know whether to laugh (at some of the Doubting Thomas’ that show up here from time to time) or cry (having spent all that time building my own system) when I put down the phone.

My mother always claimed that my uncle had invented the zipper just before Lightning patented it. Maybe it runs in the family.

Sergei

[bhayden]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

He said they expect strong interest as New York State has ( is going to?) ban propane in RV’s.

What? Can they even do that? I would think anybody with a piece of the pie in the tourism buisness would be lobbing strongly against a bonehead piece of legislation like this.

-Bernie

[SmokelessJoe]

Bernie:

I’m sure you’re right about an outcry but using propane in trailers may also be a bonehead idea.

You don’t often see propane used in boats or in the big highway 18-wheelers.

It is generally conceded that standards in the RV industry leave a lot to be desired and that the regulations concerning propane while traveling, at gas stations, on bridges and tunnels, etc. etc. are not often enforced.

I like the idea expressed by SAFARI 28 in post #85 above.

Airstream should be a leader in innovation. As it is now, most of the equipment and systems they use are the same, low quality ones used in the everyday white box SOB’S.

Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

The trailer has just been painted. If you are interested you can see it on my main thread here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...-18448-34.html

The set up for the Webasto furnace was changed slightly from the original as shown in #65 above.

I didn’t like the location and look of the overflow tank so I had a new cover built for it and relocated it lower down on the side of the A/C compressor.

It looks very nice now





Sergei

[Darkspeed]

Serge, I am very impressed with your system.
Are you still happy with it? Is the heating capacity adequate for your AS?
Do you have any numbers on fuel consumption of a period of time?

Thank you!

[SmokelessJoe]

Darkspeed,
It’s good to see others becoming interested in exploring new possibilities with their Airstreams..

As well, this is an opportunity to bring the tread up to date.

After 4 years use I am very pleased with both the hydronic heating system built around the Webasto TSL 17 and the diesel cook top.

For background, I lived in the trailer for the summers of 2008, 2009, 2010 while finishing the project and finally hit the road for an extensive tour to the US South last November, out for 173 days and visiting 38 cities.

The paragraphs below are excerpted from a letter sent to Randall, the guy who sold me the TSL 17 and who was always there for me with encouragement and advice:

You’ll see from my report that winter has followed me pretty much everywhere. I think that Austin and Shreveport were the only towns since November in which I didn't need to use the TSL!

The little gem has preformed flawlessly. For instance, I was hunkered down at Galveston, Texas - right on the Gulf of Mexico - with the winds whipping in across the water and producing all- time-record-setting low temperatures - what they call “hard freezes” down here - for 5 nights in a row. The heater ran CONTINUOUSLY, day and night, non-stop, for over 100 hours. (Most of the time I can turn the heater off during the day because the sun warms the trailer but not on those 5 grey, freezing, wind-filled days).

I often think that I was incredibly lucky to have first mistakenly hooked the TSL up to the Tempo tank take-off, using the one supplied with the TSL for the diesel cook top. Had it been the other way around the stove would never have worked and no one would ever have figured out why.

The stove is sold without a take-up on the assumption that you are going to tap into the fuel supply on a motor home I suppose. Like I told you, the guys at Fenton had never seen an installed Webasto cook top and where very nervous about coming out to the trailer to see it.

The cook top has performed perfectly for 3 summers and on this long winter tour too


The back-story about the reference to hooking up the TSL fuel supply incorrectly is this:

For fuel supply, I bought a molded plastic tank, used in boating, and had it mounted under the belly pan. The Tempo Industries tank came compete with a built in 360’ fuel take up.

I made the layman’s uniformed choice to connect the fuel line to the take-up rather than use the TSL supplied standpipe. (I used that for the Webasto/Wallas cook top, which came with no standpipe on the assumption that you’re going to tap into a motor home or vessel fuel line I suppose).

Anyway, for those 3 summers living and working in the trailer the heating systems didn’t get a full workout. The TSL was only used in the spring and fall shoulder seasons.

The furnace always worked but it also always shut itself down, sometimes in minutes and sometimes after hours and hours.

I knew something was wrong so before hitting the road last fall I took the rig aver to Randall where we discovered my hook-up mistake.

The Tempo take-up was 1/4”; the fuel line to the TSL is only .02 mm. Air was thereby getting sucked into the fuel line. When that air reached the ingenious little 8.5” x 4” x 7” furnace it’s onboard computers told it to shut down, something was wrong.

I am a person without mechanical aptitude or engineering knowledge, as you can tell by this story, but when people who do have the knowledge come across people like us - people who want to explore doing things out of the ordinary – they will often go out of their way, un-selfishly, to help you realize your plan.

My trip began with the simple out loud musing at the first post on this thread.

Tips and suggestions from the Forum led me to a guy in Vancouver, BC, building heating systems for boats and for the US Army, who told me about the TSL and put me in touch with Randall, half way across the country.

Another Forum member led me to Bill and Dave, employees at a Colorado company building heating systems for motor homes, who coached me along the way. I’ve never met these guys but their 1” thick email correspondence with me amounts to my Owners Manual.

On the Internet you can meet a lot of detractors and know-it-alls but you will also find smart people who can understand your non-conventional ideas and will even take up your cause.


This much adventure is not for everybody, of course, but I appreciate the quiet effective heat and am proud of the system that folks helped me build.

The cook top has run flawlessly for 4 years now. Its cooking performance is not equal to gas but I didn’t want gas in the trailer so there’s always a trade-off.

Even if you don’t build the World’s Second Diesel Powered Airstream you’ll enjoy the Imagineering.

Good luck,


Sergei

[Darkspeed]

Sergei, thank you for your update! That is some very useful information..

I would prefer to follow your example with the TSL for hot water and heat with the addition of a Wallas 87D oven/cooktop.

The only problem may be getting service on the Wallas and choking on the $3500 price tag.

I know the Wallas wont heat up as fast as propane but the lack of moisture in the cabin may be a fair tradeoff.

The Isotemp tank can be ordered with a dual circuit heat exchanger which would allow for the TSL driving one exchanger and a roof mounted solar water heater driving the other circuit. That would be a worth while experiment

Thank you and keep up the good work!

http://www.wallas.fi/default.asp?id=boat-oven-87D