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Old 02-27-2007, 09:41 PM   #57
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Malcolm, my WEBASTO supplier says that water must never be used in the heater. Water has a lower boiling point than coolant and that will make it potentially very dangerous.

Westfalia, the same dealer says, yes, you can use SOYA based bio but…..

And sends along the attached bulletin from Webasto.

You can see that it’s not worth it. You’d have to change the burner annually and risk arguments about warranties.

Earth Roamer uses the same heater, and now the Webasto Cook Top as well. In my opinion they should not therefore be advocating bio.

But in the rush to jump on the Green Marketing Bandwagon, details like actual performance are going to fall to the wayside.

Sergei
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Malcolm,

I love the idea of running tubing exposed. Kind of retro/industrial look.

The plastic mounting clips could make a really attractive installation. Mounting on the walls or ceiling would also be a better method for heating the sleeping quarters, where the beds would provide too much blocking of radiant heat coming from the floor.

PS: In the Kansas study the pex was run 8" on center.
I had some idea of having electric blue accent colors in my AS anyway. It could look pretty nice to use the blue colored PEX.

Malcolm
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:21 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
Malcolm, my WEBASTO supplier says that water must never be used in the heater. Water has a lower boiling point than coolant and that will make it potentially very dangerous.

Westfalia, the same dealer says, yes, you can use SOYA based bio but…..

And sends along the attached bulletin from Webasto.

You can see that it’s not worth it. You’d have to change the burner annually and risk arguments about warranties.

Earth Roamer uses the same heater, and now the Webasto Cook Top as well. In my opinion they should not therefore be advocating bio.

But in the rush to jump on the Green Marketing Bandwagon, details like actual performance are going to fall to the wayside.

Sergei
That does make sense. It seems too bad, though, because it seems like it would be possible to eliminate the water tank heat exchanger alltogether otherwise.

Malcolm
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:23 PM   #60
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Malcolm,


In #44 above I forgot the cost of the diesel tank, complete with sending unit and fuel gauge; $272 USD.

I more carefully checked the cost of the entire set-up. All the components and fittings came to $2697 Cdn or about $2267 your money.

Sergei
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:45 PM   #61
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Phil is building a housing for the Webasto heater. It is not, strictly speaking, a requirement but I think it will be wise to protect the furnace from the elements. And perhaps prying eyes.



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Old 03-06-2007, 12:57 PM   #62
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That heater assembly looks like it is going to make a neat little package.

Malcolm
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:56 PM   #63
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Here's an off road rv that's all diesel.

Check out

EarthRoamer.com Home Page
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:11 PM   #64
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Antique Pedaler, see post # 16 above. Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:37 AM   #65
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Diesel Powered Trailer completed

After we conducted our first test of the system in #46 above, we dissembled the set up to allow us to build a stand for the LG split air compressor that shares the trailer tongue and to paint that portion of the Argosy front wall.

Phil also built a neat aluminum enclosure for the Webasto TSL heater.

Wendell installed the new Ultra Fab 3500 electric jack as well.

Now everything has been reassembled and is back in place. The Diesel system ran even better than in it’s first test.

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When you first charge the coolant lines with anti freeze you may have to bleed air out of the hoses. Tiring of using a flat screwdriver blade messily inserted into a connection, I went to the local small town hardware store and assemble a bleed valve out of 5 different brass fittings. It worked like a charm.

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You can see how the rest of the project is coming along at

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...tml#post349204

Sergei
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Old 04-29-2007, 06:17 PM   #66
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No biodiesel standards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
Marc:

The manufacturers of the diesel cook tops have told me to be sure not to use bio diesel.

The reason is that the stoves are very precisely engineered.

They said that, unlike regular diesel, there are no standards for bio diesel. Well-intentioned people make some of it in backyards and the varying results wreak havoc with these things.

Sergei
Don't tell that to the National Biodiesel Board. Here is a relevant section from the myths and facts link:
Myth: No objective biodiesel fuel formulation standard exists.
Fact: The biodiesel industry has been active in setting standards for biodiesel since 1994 when the first biodiesel taskforce was formed within the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). ASTM approved a provisional standard for biodiesel (ASTM PS 121) in July of 1999. The final specification (D-6751) was issued in December 2001. Copies of specifications are available from ASTM at ASTM International.

Boilerplate warning was correct. I've used bio from commercial distributers since 2004 in my Duramax. It loves it and runs smoother. I would be very hesitant about using home brew though. The truth is commercial petroleum diesel is just as likely (or more so) to have water in it. That is why most LD diesel pickup trucks have a water seperator and drain valve. The diesel cook top manufacturers are protecting themselves but using false and misleading information. And I would love to be towing our Safari with an Earth Roamer.
-KL
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:43 PM   #67
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Now the Diesel Powered Trailer IS complete.

If I proclaimed “Diesel Powered Trailer Completed” in #65 above I overlooked the final, important component, the COOK TOP.

This is the Webasto Diesel Cooker passing it’s first test, boiling water.

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Followers of the thread will remember that the cook top was developed by the firm WALLAS in Finland. Recently, they set up a marketing alliance with the German company WEBASTO, the same firm that makes my diesel coolant heater.

Wallas manufactures and still sells to the marine world. Webasto repackages the stove in the Netherlands and sells it worldwide, under their own name, to the RV-Motorhome-Caravan market.

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I hoped when the box arrived a few weeks ago that it might be a simple job. It may be a little easier to install that a Wallas in a boat but the Webasto Cook Top has a long way to go before it can be called “plug and play”.

The carton contained the under the counter ventilation box and parts plus the complete diesel fired cooker.

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This is the underside of the stove.

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Here’s the CERAN cook top and the control unit.

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It would have been very, very difficult to install this in an existing counter. I had the luxury of building my kitchen from scratch so I made the cutouts for sink, faucet and cook top and laid the counter over the cook top, both upside down, on the floor.

I fixed the stove to the counter and made all the electrical, exhaust and fuel line connections before covering everything with the ventilation box.

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Finally, I gather all the lines into a loom harness, mounted the sink and faucet and called a neighbor to help lift the counter onto cabinets.

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The unit is very, very quiet making even less sound than the Webasto heater. You can’t hear the combustion, only the small .5 amp fan at the front of the vent box.

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Some people on this thread wondered about diesel smell. I’m happy to tell you there is none, zero. I can’t see how there can be since there is no open combustion and all hot gases are vented to the outside.

Propane left an ordour in the trailer. This doesn’t. The miniaturized technology and quiet operation is really fascinating.

The stainless surround ( top picture) is not part of the Webasto set up. It’s a happy accident. I decided to move the stove 2” after I cut the original opening. The stainless hides that but has ended up making the stove more attractive, I think.



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Old 08-20-2007, 03:35 PM   #68
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Do I need all the outriggers??

Before we decided to mount the diesel fuel tank just forward of the axles I was going to have a custom shape built to fit the area between the frame rail and the outer perimeter, street side.

We cut out 2 outriggers to make room for that original idea. I guess our attitude was that we’d deal with the missing outriggers “later”.

Anyway, we didn’t and that space is now largely filled with coolant hoses from the hydronic heating system. It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to weld in replacements.

The frame pieces and cross members are like new, sandblasted, primed and painted.

The span without outriggers is 77” or 6 feet 5 inches long, between the wheel well and the front of the A frame.

Do I really need the two missing outriggers?

Sergei
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:25 PM   #69
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Sergei,

My guess is that you probably could get along without them. Having said that though I have a suggestion that might help if you want to be sure it is strong enough. Consider adding some type of stiffner lengthwise rather than side to side like the outriggers would be. Do you have room, for example, to add a piece of aluminum angle (or steel?) lengthwise near the outer edge of the subfloor so it would stiffen the bottom of the wall there? I think you could just fasten it to the bottom of the subfloor with screws from below since you probably do not have any access from above anymore.

Malcolm
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:19 PM   #70
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Malcolm, that a terrific idea!

I will make a C channel out of about 1/8” aluminum, the top lip wider, bolt it to the outriggers at each end and screw it to the flooring along the top.

Such a “box” will give strength and an outer edge to roll the banana wrap around as well.

Thanks for the simple, good idea.

Sergei
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