Diesel Powered Trailer

[SmokelessJoe]

Phil is building a housing for the Webasto heater. It is not, strictly speaking, a requirement but I think it will be wise to protect the furnace from the elements. And perhaps prying eyes.



Sergei

[malconium]

That heater assembly looks like it is going to make a neat little package.

Malcolm

[Antique Pedaler]

Here's an off road rv that's all diesel.

Check out

EarthRoamer.com Home Page

[SmokelessJoe]

Antique Pedaler, see post # 16 above. Thanks.

[SmokelessJoe]

After we conducted our first test of the system in #46 above, we dissembled the set up to allow us to build a stand for the LG split air compressor that shares the trailer tongue and to paint that portion of the Argosy front wall.

Phil also built a neat aluminum enclosure for the Webasto TSL heater.

Wendell installed the new Ultra Fab 3500 electric jack as well.

Now everything has been reassembled and is back in place. The Diesel system ran even better than in it’s first test.



When you first charge the coolant lines with anti freeze you may have to bleed air out of the hoses. Tiring of using a flat screwdriver blade messily inserted into a connection, I went to the local small town hardware store and assemble a bleed valve out of 5 different brass fittings. It worked like a charm.



You can see how the rest of the project is coming along at

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...tml#post349204

Sergei

[silverback]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Marc:

The manufacturers of the diesel cook tops have told me to be sure not to use bio diesel.

The reason is that the stoves are very precisely engineered.

They said that, unlike regular diesel, there are no standards for bio diesel. Well-intentioned people make some of it in backyards and the varying results wreak havoc with these things.

Sergei

Don't tell that to the National Biodiesel Board. Here is a relevant section from the myths and facts link:
Myth: No objective biodiesel fuel formulation standard exists.
Fact: The biodiesel industry has been active in setting standards for biodiesel since 1994 when the first biodiesel taskforce was formed within the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). ASTM approved a provisional standard for biodiesel (ASTM PS 121) in July of 1999. The final specification (D-6751) was issued in December 2001. Copies of specifications are available from ASTM at ASTM International.

Boilerplate warning was correct. I've used bio from commercial distributers since 2004 in my Duramax. It loves it and runs smoother. I would be very hesitant about using home brew though. The truth is commercial petroleum diesel is just as likely (or more so) to have water in it. That is why most LD diesel pickup trucks have a water seperator and drain valve. The diesel cook top manufacturers are protecting themselves but using false and misleading information. And I would love to be towing our Safari with an Earth Roamer.
-KL

[SmokelessJoe]

If I proclaimed “Diesel Powered Trailer Completed” in #65 above I overlooked the final, important component, the COOK TOP.

This is the Webasto Diesel Cooker passing it’s first test, boiling water.



Followers of the thread will remember that the cook top was developed by the firm WALLAS in Finland. Recently, they set up a marketing alliance with the German company WEBASTO, the same firm that makes my diesel coolant heater.

Wallas manufactures and still sells to the marine world. Webasto repackages the stove in the Netherlands and sells it worldwide, under their own name, to the RV-Motorhome-Caravan market.


I hoped when the box arrived a few weeks ago that it might be a simple job. It may be a little easier to install that a Wallas in a boat but the Webasto Cook Top has a long way to go before it can be called “plug and play”.

The carton contained the under the counter ventilation box and parts plus the complete diesel fired cooker.



This is the underside of the stove.



Here’s the CERAN cook top and the control unit.



It would have been very, very difficult to install this in an existing counter. I had the luxury of building my kitchen from scratch so I made the cutouts for sink, faucet and cook top and laid the counter over the cook top, both upside down, on the floor.

I fixed the stove to the counter and made all the electrical, exhaust and fuel line connections before covering everything with the ventilation box.



Finally, I gather all the lines into a loom harness, mounted the sink and faucet and called a neighbor to help lift the counter onto cabinets.



The unit is very, very quiet making even less sound than the Webasto heater. You can’t hear the combustion, only the small .5 amp fan at the front of the vent box.



Some people on this thread wondered about diesel smell. I’m happy to tell you there is none, zero. I can’t see how there can be since there is no open combustion and all hot gases are vented to the outside.

Propane left an ordour in the trailer. This doesn’t. The miniaturized technology and quiet operation is really fascinating.

The stainless surround ( top picture) is not part of the Webasto set up. It’s a happy accident. I decided to move the stove 2” after I cut the original opening. The stainless hides that but has ended up making the stove more attractive, I think.



Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

Before we decided to mount the diesel fuel tank just forward of the axles I was going to have a custom shape built to fit the area between the frame rail and the outer perimeter, street side.

We cut out 2 outriggers to make room for that original idea. I guess our attitude was that we’d deal with the missing outriggers “later”.

Anyway, we didn’t and that space is now largely filled with coolant hoses from the hydronic heating system. It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to weld in replacements.

The frame pieces and cross members are like new, sandblasted, primed and painted.

The span without outriggers is 77” or 6 feet 5 inches long, between the wheel well and the front of the A frame.

Do I really need the two missing outriggers?

Sergei

[malconium]

Sergei,

My guess is that you probably could get along without them. Having said that though I have a suggestion that might help if you want to be sure it is strong enough. Consider adding some type of stiffner lengthwise rather than side to side like the outriggers would be. Do you have room, for example, to add a piece of aluminum angle (or steel?) lengthwise near the outer edge of the subfloor so it would stiffen the bottom of the wall there? I think you could just fasten it to the bottom of the subfloor with screws from below since you probably do not have any access from above anymore.

Malcolm

[SmokelessJoe]

Malcolm, that a terrific idea!

I will make a C channel out of about 1/8” aluminum, the top lip wider, bolt it to the outriggers at each end and screw it to the flooring along the top.

Such a “box” will give strength and an outer edge to roll the banana wrap around as well.

Thanks for the simple, good idea.

Sergei

[malconium]

Sergei,

I am glad the idea helped. You did have me going a bit though when you asked the same question in two places. I went in and read the last couple of posts in your other thread today and saw the question posted there. I thought sure I had sent you an answer and was happy to find that I did when I checked for updates on this thread.

Your rig is looking great and almost ready to take on its maiden cruise. I have not had time to work on mine recently and need to get back to it as soon as I can. I have just started a new job, though, so some of the things that were taking up most of my full-time have now become spare-time activities adding to the list of projects competing for my time along with the slowly progressing Airstream remodeling project.

Malcolm

[SmokelessJoe]

Malcolm had a neat idea but the more I looked at the area the less difficult a work-around seemed.

Phil agreed and came up with the idea to cut a reinforced passageway (for the coolant hoses) through one of the two outriggers we’ll replace.

Phil is going to weld an angle bracket onto both outriggers and machine bolt them onto the frame.

We don’t want to risk burning hoses or wires that we’ve installed.


Sergei

[SmokelessJoe]

I got one of these outriggers from Happycampers and one from a dealer and had the Wiltsie shop modify them.



Phil will bolt them to the frame this week.

[SmokelessJoe]

[Ramp]

The new low sulfer diesel now in use dose not smell hardly at all. I have a diesel car, truck and tractor and love them. The off road diesel I use in the tractor smokes more than the on road stuff. I think diesel will be the fule of choice in the future. My VW TDI gets 48 mpg in the mountains where I live and pulls the hills great.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Westfalia

I decided to find out what the BTU difference was between propane and diesel. I was surprised by what I found.

Diesel #2 - 1.7lbs/gal - 140,000 BTU/gal
Biodiesel - 130,000 BTU/gal
Propane - 4.24lbs/gal - per liquid pound 21,591 BTU/gal in liquid form, ~92,000 BTU/gal in vapor form

Ignoring tank weight, 14 gallons of propane (two 30# tanks worth) will weigh 59.36 lbs and only have a 1,288,000 BTUs of energy. Diesel in the same quantity will only weigh 23.8 lbs and have 1,960,000 BTUs.

WOW, that is a BIG difference. The weight savings alone is worth switching, and you still come out ahead with lower consumption. If you manufacture and use your own biodiesel for the trailer (and possibly tow
vehicle when biodiesel distribution becomes widespread in the future), you can do so for only around $1.50/gal!!!

Problems I can see are:

- You will need to construct or retrofit a DOT approved diesel tank under the trailer

- I'm not finding any diesel refrigerators out there on the net. You would need to go with a 12V solution. How are you going to charge the batteries??? Any weight savings from the lighter diesel will be negated by adding a bank of batteries to run the fridge.

This is the first time I've seen this thread and admit I haven't read every post but I see what seems to be a mistake in you calulations---you say diesel weighs 1.7 lbs per gal ??? All the info I can find says it weighs 7.3 lbs per gal.---- that would make 14 gals of diesel weigh 102.2 lbs not 23.8 as you state---am I missing something here???------pieman

[Westfalia]

Mike, I vastly mis-stated my number on diesel when I typed that, and I had completely forgotten about it and haven't had a moderator edit this set of numbers.

[Streamer1]

HEY SMOKELESS JOE, HOW ABOUT AN UPDATE? ANY PICTURES? I drive a 2006 F250 PSD so I am interested in all stuff diesel.

[Kajtek1]

Is this 2-years old topic still active?
Diesel as a fuel might make technical sense, but it all come to calculations.
Webasto heaters are used on high-end motorhomes, that have no propane at all. They use electric cook-tops with 1000 pounds of battery banks, inverters and automatic generators.
So those Webasto heaters are loved when they work, but hated when they don't. With like 7 motors in the system, bunch of sensors, igniter, injectors they are very high maintenance unit. So even if you decide to spend big $$$ on the purchase, keeping it working with age might be impossible.
Good luck

[SmokelessJoe]

Streamer and Kajtek1:

The diesel hydronic heating system was completed and tested many, many months ago but I didn’t start to use in until the other day, while still working on the final stages of my reno.

See posts # 383 and #386 in my main thread here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...-18448-28.html


There are many, many photos in the thread you are on right now, including photos of the diesel cook top in post #67. Go back.

Kajtek, your rain missed my parade.



Sergei