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04-07-2017, 05:34 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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Carbon Monoxide leak from water heater !!
Anyone else experienced a Carbon Monoxide leak from the water heater when on propane?
Sensors alerted us to a problem. I used a professional sensor to narrow down the appliance causing the issue. Furnace checked out ok, not checked fridge yet but water heater is definitely leaking CO into the cabin.
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Below are realtime readings, not average.
To this level in just a couple of minutes. It would have easily built up. It must have when we were traveling to trigger the stock CO sensor.
Scheduled into Airstream dealer to look at this under warranty.
Wondered if anyone else had an issue like this and if yes, what was the repair?
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04-07-2017, 05:50 PM
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#2
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The Aluminum Tent 3
2014 23' Flying Cloud
Park City
, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,157
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With the water heater being fairly isolated under the bed in the FC 19, I do wonder if this was the source? Especially with the relatively low level you monitored (STILL SOMETHING TO GET CHECKED OUT THOUGH!) Is the CO2 detector above the bed on the bathroom wall?
My Airstream manual suggests that for those with severe CO2 sensitivities, replacing the stock unit with one that detects concentrations less than 30 ppm. With your reading of 14 ppm in behind the heater in the space under the bed, could the source be from something else? Or could the detector be faulty? Even with the low level--I would think the reading should be ZERO in the WH compartment, given that the unit is sealed and only vents to outside, or should anyway.
Did you say you had the water heater on while under way? Was the furnace and/or fridge on as well?
Hope you get it figured out, as that is definitely something worrisome.
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04-07-2017, 06:33 PM
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#3
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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I should have said, the meter read 0 under the bed when I first put it in there. (Water heater off) Stayed like that for the time, 15 minutes, until I turned on the water heater, propane only.
I originally suspected a bad CO monitor. I Swapped out stock CO sensor which is on the wall high up above the bed. Newly purchased sensor did the same.
Sensors like the stock one (and most consumer ones) use a weighted average algorithm so spikes are filtered out. For them to chirp (4-chirps) it means they have been reading CO for a while.
No other utility was turned on. Trailer is sitting outside my house.
Tested the overall trailer first, 0 reading.
This is an Inspector quality CO meter with almost instant readings.
Something's not sealed someplace I expect.
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04-07-2017, 07:55 PM
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#4
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The Aluminum Tent 3
2014 23' Flying Cloud
Park City
, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy
I I Swapped out stock CO sensor which is on the wall high up above the bed. Newly purchased sensor did the same.
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When you say 'did the same', do you mean that with the water heater on, the sensor up on the wall was triggered?
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04-07-2017, 08:22 PM
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#5
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier
When you say 'did the same', do you mean that with the water heater on, the sensor up on the wall was triggered?
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Yes. After a couple of hours the CO detector started chirping, two groups of 4-chirps.
It's a CO issue for sure, I'm just confounded as to where it's leaking. Hence I need to get the dealer to look into this. The rig is still under warranty. Oh, and the AC/Heat pump does not seem to be working. I'll get them to look at this at the same time. I'm not a fan of the dealer, especially the service department, i hope they impress me.
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04-07-2017, 08:34 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
2008 F350, 6.4L diesel
, Oak Harbor, WA
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 605
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I installed a new water heater and can only think of one place that there is a cabin penetration and that is the gas line path which has a loose seal to it.
Do you know how the gas is entering the trailer?
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04-07-2017, 08:52 PM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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No idea how it's entering the cabin. I looked at the water heater from outside and it looked fine, gas line seal is in place. I didn't touch the white hard polystyrene foam surrounding the water heater on the inside.
But I do feel a general draft from under the bed so that leads me to think there is an air gap someplace.
We dry camp a lot and it would be nice to have hot water without the worry of CO induced death. That would make for a bad day for sure.
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04-07-2017, 10:16 PM
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#8
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3 Rivet Member
2008 19' Bambi
Carlsbad
, California
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 125
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You also want to adjust the flames on the appliances to be as blue as possible by moving the air shutter on the gas line. A yellow flame has more CO.
Russ
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04-08-2017, 12:03 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Vintage Kin Owner
Sonoma Co.
, California
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 297
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Did you check for a partially clogged exhaust vent? Some spiders make extremely dense webs that can collect enough dust/dirt to become an impediment to exhaust gas.
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04-08-2017, 12:24 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Limited
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy
Anyone else experienced a Carbon Monoxide leak from the water heater when on propane?
Wondered if anyone else had an issue like this and if yes, what was the repair?
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I have had a CO leak related to running my water heater on propane. Take a look at this post for details!
Steve
__________________
Steve
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04-08-2017, 12:33 PM
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#11
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3 Rivet Member
1965 24' Tradewind
almena
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 170
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Carbon Monoxide!!!
This is why I am in the process of converting my '65 Tradewind away from propane except for the cook stove. An electric only fridge, an electric 2 1/2 gallon water heater and a fuel oil fired Espar type semi truck bunk heater. Of course any boondocking will be done with a generator and inverter. I can turn the valve off at the tank and not be concerned with any carbon monoxide or gas leak issues.
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04-08-2017, 06:06 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant
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Thanks Steve, while our heater is less than 2 years old I wonder is the heat exchanger is cracked.
Checked the exhaust, it's clear.
Thanks everyone!
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04-08-2017, 06:27 PM
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#13
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The Aluminum Tent 3
2014 23' Flying Cloud
Park City
, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy
Thanks Steve, while our heater is less than 2 years old I wonder is the heat exchanger is cracked.
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There is no heat exhanger, it heats with direct furnace flame on the tank, or the electric element in the tank. Heat exchangers are on heater models that are in motorized RVs where hot coolant from the coach engine passes through the water heater via an exchanger transfers heat to the water in the heater.
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04-08-2017, 07:49 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Limited
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier
There is no heat exhanger, it heats with direct furnace flame on the tank, or the electric element in the tank. Heat exchangers are on heater models that are in motorized RVs where hot coolant from the coach engine passes through the water heater via an exchanger transfers heat to the water in the heater.
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The water heater may not be a heat exchanger like you are thinking about, but it's still a heat exchanger ( see explanation).
A heat exchanger is the transfer of heat from one fluid to another through an intermediate barrier that likely has a high coefficient of heat conductivity (think of a metal like copper/aluminum or many others). The fluids could be in a liquid or gaseous state.
__________________
Steve
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04-08-2017, 07:52 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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Well that is a heat exchange, flame to tank It will also have to be sealed from the cabin, which is where I suspect I have an issue.
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04-09-2017, 08:33 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
2008 F350, 6.4L diesel
, Oak Harbor, WA
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 605
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I am replacing one this weekend for my grandkids, will try and find a leak path.
s
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04-10-2017, 10:23 AM
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#17
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3 Rivet Member
2016 19' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgschwend
I am replacing one this weekend for my grandkids, will try and find a leak path.
s
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Did you find anything?
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04-10-2017, 05:12 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
2008 F350, 6.4L diesel
, Oak Harbor, WA
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 605
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I will be doing the job this Friday afternoon, sorry to imply last weekend. The good part is I can take the replaced water heater apart to see how those part are sealed.
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04-10-2017, 08:21 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Limited
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgschwend
I will be doing the job this Friday afternoon, sorry to imply last weekend. The good part is I can take the replaced water heater apart to see how those part are sealed.
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I should have done exactly what you are doing (disassembled the heater and to see why it failed). However, life interrupted at least one time too many and I never investigated.
__________________
Steve
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04-12-2017, 03:03 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2008 19' Bambi
Carlsbad
, California
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 125
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With heat exchangers in furnaces a crack could lead to combustion air mixing with circulated air which is what is circulated into the living space. In a water heater no such exchange would occur without water leaking into the burner. If you are experiencing CO from the WH entering the cabin, I would guess it is a cabinet enclosure leak. I have not worked on an RV WH, so don't really know how they are constructed, but would guess that the sealed cabinet is integral to the unit, inserted from the outside of the coach and caulked to the outer skin at a flange. If they relied on the various coach builders to provide a gas tight cabinet it would not be a good thing.
Our WH was acting up on our last outing. Upon fire up it would ignite then die repetitively, then eventually stay lit. Some safety control kept turning off the gas. Wonder what that is?
Russ
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