Will you leave??

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by sfixx

I am not currently a WBCCI member, so it took me a little while to find an explanation of what exactly the issue is. Thor, the owner of Airstream, labels some of their square motorhomes "Airstream" and the WBCCI will soon vote on weather to allow those MOHOs to be full members.

I suppose it may appear to be too simplistic to think that anything Thor labels Airstream is truely an Airstream but no denying that's the fact.

Yes, that is too simplistic. Airstream is a subsidiary of Thor. In fact, Thor was formed for the sole purpose of purchasing Airstream from Beatrice Foods in the early '80's. All of the other brands under the Thor umbrella company came after Airstream so none of those products are Airstreams.

It is my understanding from everything that I have seen that has come from the IBT that this motion is coming from the IBT NOT Thor. Initially, the IBT asked Thor to re-brand the Mandalay as an Airstream and it was Airstream that nixed that idea because they wouldn't sell them through their dealer network nor would they warrant them through Airstream's warranty program. They also didn't want their dealer service departments to have the responsibility of having to be trained on servicing the Mandalay motor homes. This is when Thor suggested making certain models of the Thor's Four Winds brand "Airstream Editions" with special graphics and "stickers" that read Airstream Edition on the side. Accepting these Airstream Editions into the WBCCI is the motion that we will be voting on next month for our delegates to vote on if/when the motion is made at the International Rally in Perry later this year. I say, "if/when" because I have read a rumor that Thor has withdrew its willingness to go through with this plan.

Carole, did I get this right? Please feel free to correct me if I missed anything or got anything wrong.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

You mean you actually believed that old wives tale about burying your trailer in snow to put such a shine on it that you'll never ever have to refinish or walbernize. Sheesh, are you ever gullible!

I think he has a dent he's trying to get out with the ice method. I hate to tell him, but that was dry ice and it has been proven to not work.

[sfixx]

I'm just trying to understand the dilema. Are the owners of the vehicles on Airstreams current website eligible for WBCCI membership? Including ALL the "Motorhomes" and "Touring Coaches"?

Steve

P.S. Are any made in Jackson Center, or are they made in the same plants as the Thor MOs?

[wheel interested]

Jonathon that was a great summation of the situation and the motion before us. I have only one thing that I might add, that has been recently developing since the IBT rally, and that is Airstream will not allow another product to be labeled as an "Airstream Edition" so expect to see it proposed as a "WBCCI Edition". Apparently Airstream isn't just handing out their name willy nilly or endorsement on something other than a real Airstream.

Yes Steve all the products, motorhomes, vans, squarestreams, argosies, fifth wheels, basecamps (and the 1935 Torpedo-exception) made by Airstream are all eligible for membership, nothing is proposed to change the way the club handles membership with any of the Airstreams. What the dilemma is is that the IBT now would like to let another brand of motorhome into the club and also the members of that other motorhome club to increase WBCCI membership so the club would no longer be Airstream only club. It would be a combination club of Four Winds and Airstreams.

They assembled motorhomes right there smack in the middle of the Jackson Center factory, chasis up.

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by sfixx

I'm just trying to understand the dilema. Are the owners of the vehicles on Airstreams current website eligible for WBCCI membership? Including ALL the "Motorhomes" and "Touring Coaches"?

Steve

P.S. Are any made in Jackson Center, or are they made in the same plants as the Thor MOs?

The answers to your first two questions are "yes" and "yes."
I don't quite understand the question in your postscript. Can you clarify?

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by sfixx

I'm just trying to understand the dilema. Are the owners of the vehicles on Airstreams current website eligible for WBCCI membership? Including ALL the "Motorhomes" and "Touring Coaches"?

Steve

P.S. Are any made in Jackson Center, or are they made in the same plants as the Thor MOs?

No Airstream products are made in any other brand's plants. Originally, the first Airstream plant was in California and a second plant was opened in Ohio in the '50's. The California plant was closed in the '70's and all Airstreams have been made in Ohio since. There was a second Ohio plant for a while, but it was closed some time ago. I think they may have originally made the Argosy line and then the Classic motor homes at the second plant, but I don't remember for sure. Today, all Airstream campers, trailers and Class B motor homes (class C's were made there, too), are made in Jackson Center and they are all eligible for membership in the WBCCI.

BTW, the WBCCI only began to allow Airstream motor homes to be admitted into the club in 1995. This was almost the last year that Airstream made the Classic motor homes. By Classic, we mean the monocoque, bare aluminum motor home that most closely resembles the classic styled Airstream travel trailer.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

I have only one thing that I might add, that has been recently developing since the IBT rally, and that is Airstream will not allow another product to be labeled as an "Airstream Edition" so expect to see it proposed as a "WBCCI Edition". Apparently Airstream isn't just handing out their name willy nilly or endorsement on something other than a real Airstream.

This is probably what I read and just misunderstood.

[mistral blue]

1995 was the same year the Argosy, made in Versailles, OH was allowed in the WBCCI.

[myboyburt]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

When will this hazing period ever end?!?

Never, most likely.

[sfixx]

Originally Posted by mistral blue

...
I don't quite understand the question in your postscript. Can you clarify?

" P.S. Are any ("Motorhomes" and "Touring Coaches")made in Jackson Center, or are they made in the same plants as the Thor MOs?"

I asked this because after comparing the Airstream class A's with the Thor class A's they looked very similar and I could hardly tell the difference. Perhaps after further analysis one could determine why a Thor is not an Airstream but an Airstream is still a Thor.

I do understand where the passion comes from. How do Jaguar or Land Rover owners feel when you point out that their vehicle is technically a Ford product?

Steve

[racoco]

Steve -- You make a good point about Jag's and Landie's. Our TV is actually a Land Rover. A 2006 LR3. And it's a Land Rover. Yes, Ford owns Premier Auto Group that owns Land Rover, but she's still a Landie. And I have to say, an Airstream is an Airstream. A Four Winds MOHO is a Four Winds MOHO. We, the members of WBCCI, have our club and they need their own club. If WBCCI allows in other RV makes, then WBCCI only becomes a large chapter of The Good Sams Club.

[myboyburt]

Originally Posted by balrgn

NO.

I restate our position: We will NOT leave the WBCCI. The NEU is a fantastic, fun loving Unit and we do not want to miss out on a thing they are doing.

This is our club, and we will be in the position to impact change soon. I just hope we remember these discussions when we get into "power" and we listen to the voices of the younger members who are coming in behind us.

[rgesch]

Actually, "I" never really joined and it was quite a while before I actually was aware that I had "arrived", so I suspect that a considerable amount of time will pass before I actually "leave". Where would I go?

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by sfixx

" P.S. Are any ("Motorhomes" and "Touring Coaches")made in Jackson Center, or are they made in the same plants as the Thor MOs?"

I asked this because after comparing the Airstream class A's with the Thor class A's they looked very similar and I could hardly tell the difference. Perhaps after further analysis one could determine why a Thor is not an Airstream but an Airstream is still a Thor.

I do understand where the passion comes from. How do Jaguar or Land Rover owners feel when you point out that their vehicle is technically a Ford product?

Steve

As has been said in this thread before, Jackson Center made the Land Yacht, Cutter, Skydeck, et al motor homes up 'till the '07 model year. They purchased the chassis and engines from outside vendors just like other motor home manufacturers do. They may have even purchased some of the walls and front/rear body panels, I don't know for sure how much was actually built on site. However, many other motor home manufacturers make their own so they can incorporate the window openings and wiring runs to suit their floor plans and I suspect Airstream had been doing the same. I believe the B-vans are purchased from freightliner as shells with the raised roofs already installed. I think they may even have some of the mill work in place on some models.

I think, using your comparison as an example, the basis for the passion would be something along the lines of this. Land Rover no longer sells the Discovery model in the U.S. A very small group of Discovery owners love their Discovery models so much they know they want another when it's time to replace it. So they approach Ford and ask them to re-badge some of the Ford Explorers as Land Rover Discoverys. Land Rover says no, they won't go along with that for legal reasons. So the Land Rover owner's club says, "Why not put a special decal on some of the Explorers that says 'Discovery Edition' and we'll get our members to accept that as an alternative. Now, other members of the Land Rover club don't like that because these Discovery Edition Explorers won't be authentic Land Rovers, will they? That is the crux of the matter.

[tincantom]

Jacob has an excellent notion above. An organization for all aluminum trailers. It'd be 95% Airstream anyway, but it'd be cool to see the Silver Streaks, Streamlines, Avions, and others.

I have not been to any of their gatherings, but there is such a group already, the Tin Can Tourists. Anything tin is in, as I understand it. I'm not advocating this in place of the WBCCI as I haven't given up yet. I believe the IBT will find out what the real club membership thinks about their idea in Perry, GA. If I'm wrong then I'll be gone, and it won't be the first time I've belonged to another Airstream Club (altho I was a WBCCI member at that time too).

tom

[ArtStream]

Originally Posted by tincantom

Jacob has an excellent notion above. An organization for all aluminum trailers. It'd be 95% Airstream anyway, but it'd be cool to see the Silver Streaks, Streamlines, Avions, and others.

I have not been to any of their gatherings, but there is such a group already, the Tin Can Tourists. Anything tin is in, as I understand it. I'm not advocating this in place of the WBCCI as I haven't given up yet. I believe the IBT will find out what the real club membership thinks about their idea in Perry, GA. If I'm wrong then I'll be gone, and it won't be the first time I've belonged to another Airstream Club (altho I was a WBCCI member at that time too).

tom

O.A.T. International

I Like it!

[wheel interested]

O.A.T. International, we would all be Oaties

[wheel interested]

From all the votes in thus far here's the latest report from Save Wally, "With more than 4000 votes still unaccounted for, we're just ~300 votes short of killing this Minority Special Interest IBT SOB Motion as the current tallies are running 70% to 30% -- AGAINST!"

To check the unit votes tallied go to Save Wally Web Site - Home

Listen to the latest VAP podcast Eposode 45, the Great Motorhome Debate,

Join Host Tim Shephard and Panel Pros Colin Hyde and Rob Baker as they talk with Leo Garvey of SaveWally.org about the WBCCI motorhome debate.

The Vintage Airstream Podcast - Home

The next item will be watching from the floor at the International and hearing amendment changes presented to the delegates. The far majority of delegates have been instructed to vote no to any new amendment and have any issue readdressed by their unit members. There also are many units voting no confidence in the lineup of leadership and may be quite a few surprises from the floor for nominees.

[rickandsandi]

Over the past several months there has been heated discusions over the MOHO issue, the IBT and the club as a whole. I have voiced my opinion on both sides of the fence and have had plenty of time to really think about our beloved WBCCI. Now that I have taken a deep breath I truely believe WBCCI is worth saving. We will not loss the club or a large section of members if the MOHO issue fails, which I hope it does. The club has lost sight of what they need to do to gain members. There are hundreds of folks right here on this forum who have not joined WBCCI for several reasons and we need to address that. There is no real reason for any Airstream owner not to join WBCCI. Yes, we have a lot of work to do and it can be accomplished with unity of the next generation of members. As I was at the Scusett Beach gathering this past weekend there was a wonderful mix of WBCCI members. Long timer members with as many years in the club as I have had birthdays, newer members just starting out and those in between. What we all have in common is the love of Airstreams and friendships both old and new. After a lot of soul searching and talking with hundreds of WBCCI members, old and new the best way to bring unity back into our club is for the next generation to stand tall and become involved. The nomination committee of Region 1 will have my resume this week and my hat in the ring for the VP position. I believe that sitting on the sideline is not the solution and to become active as an officer will help in making this club an organization for ALL Airstream owners! Please support my nomination for VP Region 1.Thank you- J. Rick Cipot

[Minnie's Mate]

I applaud you Rick. A new infusion of active members is exactly what the club needs to bring it into the 21st century. I am willing to support anyone who is willing to take that step and lead this club the way it should be led.