View Poll Results: Why did leave WBCCI ?
Cost too much 10 16.95%
Not enough value for the membership fee 19 32.20%
Too many rules 21 35.59%
I don't need to belong to group to enjoy camping 25 42.37%
Bad experience 12 20.34%
Other reason(s) 12 20.34%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-04-2017, 09:09 AM   #211
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Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle! Eliana and blkmagikca - you've had some "interesting" experiences to say the least! I've seen absolutely none of that in my local unit so I feel fortunate. I think if I had seen otherwise, I'd not choose to be a member either.

I consider myself a lousy, highly imperfect example of a man who has faith. The notion that such should be part of a camping club feels like a hangover from the 40s.

I'm not a faith-hater - quite the contrary. But whose faith? Which flavor? Which brand? How does that apply to dumping my poop out of the trailer at the end of the trip?

The topic of firearms is never even discussed at my local unit's rallies. Maybe some carry, certainly some don't. If anyone's carrying, they're not talking about it or brandishing their weapons around the campfire! And if they carry because they want protection on hikes from bears and mountain lions and such - who is the club to prevent that? Let alone to squeeze around established procedure to discuss and vote.

Dang - it gets depressing. Sorry to hear of both your experiences. As real as they are, they're complexly 180 degrees from what I've experienced over the last 5 years. That's not meant to diminish your experience at all - just meant to say there at lots of local units - if you can find one you resonate with, it can be a good thing (I've made some wonderful life-long friends, learned a ton, hopefully given back something despite still being a bit of an idiot on all things technical/mechanical...) and it's been a great experience for us.

I guess at a wicked high macro level (yes, I grew up in MA ) we're all part of the "human" club and since no one of us is perfect, any club you're in won't be perfect either. You can't not join the "human" club - you're in it - but you don't need to be in the WBCCI (or is it the WBAC now?) if you don't want to.

On that note - this imperfect gentile peace lover wishes shalom to all and may you never need to use your firearm

Be well!
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:04 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
I sometimes see led-prayers as manipulative conscription of my time.
Actually, that's how I see clubs in general. There ain't any shortage of campers or campgrounds in this nation. If I wanna meet other campers, all I gotta do is open my door. If I wanna socialize around a campfire (which usually ain't my thing), all I gotta do is take a walk.

A club is just life with more rules made up by folks who just wanna tell other folks what to do and how to do it.

Meetin people ain't hard. Avoidin them is much harder, in my experience.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:14 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by TravlinMan View Post
Actually, that's how I see clubs in general. There ain't any shortage of campers or campgrounds in this nation. If I wanna meet other campers, all I gotta do is open my door. If I wanna socialize around a campfire (which usually ain't my thing), all I gotta do is take a walk.

A club is just life with more rules made up by folks who just wanna tell other folks what to do and how to do it.

Meetin people ain't hard. Avoidin them is much harder, in my experience.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:57 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Eliana View Post
I asked around my shul, and someone told me that there ARE actually Jewish camping groups.
The Escapees RV club has a "Birds of a Feather" subgroup called "Yehudim Al Galgalim" (Jews on Wheels).
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:26 PM   #215
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Can we get back to posting experiences of why we left instead or debating how what was said.

It's sounding like tow/tire threads.

Knowing what makes different people uncomfortable or hesitant to remain in WBCCI is very important to keeping the organization going.

In reading the archival documents of WBCCI religion was definitely a part of the activities of the early groups but that doesn't mean it needs to or will remain that way.

Nothing is constant except change.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:34 PM   #216
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Funny, but when I was in the club years ago the prayers didn't bother me. What did bother me were the campers that couldn't leave their campsites without a cocktail or beer in their hands, and I enjoy a cold one or two at my site.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:31 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
Can we get an "AMEN" to that?

I was just "elected" (more correctly coercion-by-pleading) to an officer's position in our WBCCI unit. The Sunday morning breakfast-worship-service is somewhat an imposition on our time, IMO. I wonder how the unit will feel if/when they see me dispense with that.
I sometimes see led-prayers as manipulative conscription of my time. I know how to pray silently without being forced to participate in someone else's idea of it.... And I don't see it much different than a rude interruption of my personal thought processes.
Think about it. When someone interrupts a large group's interactions with one-another with an announcement "LETS ALL BOW OUR HEADS AND PRAY".... it is actually a theft and a take-over of the group's activities.

To add insult to the injury.... the individual who does not participate is made to feel badly for his own belief system.
I am not aware of anyone who has been made to feel badly for non-participation. If you don't want to participate, eat breakfast, hook up and leave. It is entirely your personal decision and I will still respect you at the next campout. You also had the option to decline being an officer as others have done.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:11 PM   #218
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Again, I find it interesting that those that chose to leave or not join the WBCCI must discuss the club incessantly.


The club lives on, rent free in the heads of those that don't like it.


I wonder, if one doesn't like a restaurant, do some continue to eat there?






Regards,


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Old 10-04-2017, 07:57 PM   #219
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jdalrymple -> The question was asked why people chose to leave, possibly to attempt to address these issues for the betterment the club. I replied. My reply does have validity, which has been acknowledged right up to the very top of the club. Yet despite this, nothing corrective has been done.

Disabuse yourself of the notion that the WBCCI lives on "rent free" in my thoughts - it doesn't.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:07 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Eliana View Post
Wow. Not sure how to reply. Thank you for insulting me. Are you one of those people who thinks "Jewish" is just another protestant (i.e. Christian) denomination? Everything you say you attended was Christian. I too have attended Christian weddings, Buddhist temple, and a vast array of other religious services. I didn't get up and walk out. Why? I knew that I was going to a place of worship. I also respected that.

The Airstream Club is NOT a Christian organization. It is a CAMPING club. I did not rudely get up and walk out in the middle of their service. I had breakfast with everyone, and then when it was apparent that they were transitioning to a Christian worship service, I told everyone goodbye, wished them safe travels, and told them I enjoyed the rally and meeting everyone. I was polite and respectful. And YES, I left. No one is obligated to participate in an event planned in a CAMPING club which is clearly against their religion.

It is responses like yours which insure that some of us will never come back. Your response shows a profound lack of sensitivity, ignorance, and intolerance.

Well said.

You are welcome at our campfire Anytime (except we don't do campfires lol)

Rich
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:36 AM   #221
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Sounds like an opportunity to educate, rather than distance yourself.

Didn't read the entire thread only the last few posts. People with limited travel experience does not make them bad people, just means they did have an opportunity like those who are more fortunate.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:43 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by jdalrymple View Post
I wonder, if one doesn't like a restaurant, do some continue to eat there?
Sometimes. Not liking the restaurant isn't the same as not liking the food. Plenty of dives have great eats.

In the case of WBCCI, not liking the club isn't the same as not liking the members. Which is why I'm still in the club, despite bad experiences in the first Unit I joined.

But I'll admit, my experiences as an overworked and underappreciated club officer in said Unit have soured me on the notion of ever holding a club office ever again!
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:09 AM   #223
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I am not aware of anyone who has been made to feel badly for non-participation. If you don't want to participate, eat breakfast, hook up and leave. It is entirely your personal decision and I will still respect you at the next campout. You also had the option to decline being an officer as others have done.
I replied in a PM.

I don't subscribe to the "love it or leave it" philosophies.
The Sunday morning "devotional" was carried out during breakfast...not separately. There was no opportunity to eat breakfast (for which participants paid) and avoid the devotional which was decidedly denominational.
After considerable "lobbying" which I refused on several accounts, I accepted the nomination in an attitude of contributing to the unit which has given us such pleasure and camaraderie. And I hope to serve the office well, which will include guiding it toward less impositional, more inclusive devotionals, along with the kinds of fun activities and rallies for which the unit is noted.
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:58 PM   #224
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Why is it necessary to have an official devotional at a camping club? People shouldn't have to "choose" to participate or not participate, it shouldn't even be an issue in the first place.

Why can't people just show up for their paid meal and eat without anybody being made to feel uncomfortable? It's a camping club!
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