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63air · 07-13-2008, 09:56 AM

One of these days I hope this all gets resolved as I would really like to belong to the VAC again. I like being around people like that ,who just want to camp and have a good time. I am one of the 25 who did not renew because of the WBCCI membership requirement. My $75 is instead going to Good Sam (like the magazine and campground discounts) and the Tin Can Tourists. I can't say enough good things aboutTCT gatherings and the people who organize them especially the Bone family.

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 10:00 AM

I can not at this time. As soon as I have permission I would be glad to. I think people would benefit greatly from the experience in a way in that I am sure a lot will come to light throughout the process.

centennialman · 07-13-2008, 10:18 AM

I just want to camp. I just want to continue to meet all the great people in the VAC....what a wonderful group! I have been to a couple of WBCCI meetings and have enjoyed them too.......sigh....seems like everywhere you go people just don't get along any more.

I am optimistic though. WBCCI will evolve and "land" one day. The VAC will continue to grow. Gas prices....well....who knows. But, as long as I own an Airstream, I will support the clubs I belong to and get involved when I can.

I hope all involved find a way to work through these challenges with WBCCI and that we can all rise above the negativity.

byamcaravanner · 07-13-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick

Can you provide a copy? Scan it as I would like to see what one of these things look like. Heck it might be in my "In Box" and I don't even know it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

I can not at this time. As soon as I have permission I would be glad to. I think people would benefit greatly from the experience in a way in that I am sure a lot will come to light throughout the process.

Who's "permission" and what "process" are you referring to?

If this has actually happened to individuals in the recent past for the reasons you suggest, as members we all need to know and be presented with the details...Otherwise, you are just stirring the pot with rumor and innuendo, which serves no good purpose.

As Ed said, I would like to see one of these.

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 10:31 AM

Like I said - as soon as I get permission I will or perhaps the individuals will do it themselves. But as privacy has been requested, you will have to settle for the rumor and innuendo. Sorry, best I can do but eventually it will all come out. I agree that this should be public - you are preaching to the choir. I mention it because like others issues the club has faced, word doesn't travel very quickly if at all. You all know the issue is there in this case and you all will have to be patient. The goods will be coming.
Actually, one of them is already out there - I forgot. I have not seen the grievance yet but you can read about it on SaveWally. Bob Thompson has a grievance filed against him for a scathing letter he wrote about the direction the club is going. I am waiting to see that but it has been publicly acknowledged that it has been filed. The other(s) you will have to wait.... read about it on SaveWally.

HowieE · 07-13-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosetags

This may not be all bad. The WBCCI could morph into a Thor camper club, and these Forums will remain as the difinative Airstream Club of the future.
Brian

This has been the obvious conclusion from the day I joined the Forum. The numbers speak for themselves.

Considering the vote on the name change I would say 50% or more of the WBCCI members that voted would follow the Forum.

The question is would Thor support a dwindling club made up of individuals buying any of their products or would the Airstream division switch allegiance and follow the numbers.

Having owned an Airstream for 14 years I only joined 2 years ago to continue my deceased uncles, a past Watchung unit President, numbers. In that time I have attended several forum rallies and one WBCCI rally. One was enough. That rally had the honor of having Mr. Carson in attendance. He succeeded in driving a none WBCCI member guest I had brought to the rally away in less than 12 hours, 8 of which we were asleep. The following year Mr. Carson was national membership chairman. I am amazed there were any new members that year.

When I first read Mr. Franklin's proposal it reminded me of a series I had just seen on the history of the second World War in which they followed the similarities between the method used by WWII-era political figures to remove opposition. I guess Mr. Franklin watched the same series.

Zeppelinium · 07-13-2008, 11:36 AM

OK, here's the deal. We press people who don't want to be club president into service. That's the prime qualification--don't want it. I suggest Buttercup and 2Air. Boy, would things change! Instead of coats and ties and berets, it would be tutus and combat boots with plenty of pirate flags...

I'm sure there are others even more qualified!

Zep

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 11:57 AM

You are fascinated by the tutu - aren't you? I can tell you how to order your own! Very comfortable and cool in the hot desert air out on the playa.
It would be fun to see the club have a costume night. Maybe we should plan something like that for next year's VAC at Madison - Hmmmm...
If I were president I would certainly do things differently!

Rick56Safari · 07-13-2008, 06:27 PM

OK, We are a 60s yr old couple that just got into Air Streams, the WBCCI and this forum this past year. Do we see a problem in the WBCCI?? Yes, we do. Although the folks we know are friendly, pleasant, interesting, adventersome and warmly welcomed us once we joined, we do feel like the youngsters in the group. Fortunately we have not yet been made to sit at the children's table at recent rallys.

Maybe the membership decline is due to old age, a group mentality that life stopped 30 yrs ago and the fact that membership has to be solicited, not offered. We found out about the WBCCI by accident, as we did with the VAC. Why isn't there more said about these groups?? Where are our dues going that some can't be used to educate the general RV population and Air Streamers about these groups??

Eliminating dissent just hastens the decline of an organization. Maybe, the Leadership needs to seek out new ideas and activities for and from its members. Threatening expulsion does nothing but create the equivalent of the Stepford Wives, and we all know what happened there. This organization needs to be run from the bottom up ( the members driving the club, not the club pushing its agenda ). The club must respond to what the members want rather than what the leadership "Thinks" the membership should have. When was the last time a survey of the members was accomplished?? How many people were approached by the Leadership at the Bozeman Rally and asked what it is they want or need in this club?? It is possible the membership wants to maintain the status Quo, but no one knows cause no one has taken the time to find out. Once someone takes the time to gather this vital information it has to be shared with the membership and a honest and civil discussion encouraged. The failure to gather and share reliable information is what will destory an organization faster than anything else.

Our WBCCI membership number is at the end of this message. If someone feels we are a disruptive influence in the WBCCI then feel free to take whatever action you think is necessary. To paraphase Woody Allen, who would not belong to any club that would have him, we wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tells us how to think.

We will continue to enjoy our Air Stream and the WBCCI members who continue to see us, even secretly, and we will continue to attend Forum rallys and enjoy the folks there.

The WBCCI can be a major voice in the RV community today, or it can wither and die and be remembered along with 55 cents a gallon gas. The choice rests with those of us willing to step up and be counted not with those who are willing to stand by and do nothing.

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 06:37 PM

For a little more info, there is some discussion oner on WBCCI's web site on the grievance on Bob Thompson.

cameront120 · 07-13-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick56Safari

OK, We are a 60s yr old couple that just got into Air Streams, the WBCCI and this forum this past year. Do we see a problem in the WBCCI?? Yes, we do. Although the folks we know are friendly, pleasant, interesting, adventersome and warmly welcomed us once we joined, we do feel like the youngsters in the group.

Imagine how those of us in our 40's and younger feel about joining! As I said before, one look at the Blue Beret sealed the deal for me. There is nothing there that appeals to a person of my generation. I mean, think of it this way, I'm the product of the punk rock era, so you can see where there might be problems

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick56Safari

To paraphase Woody Allen, who would not belong to any club that would have him, we wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tells us how to think.

I believe that you are thinking of Grouch Marx.

Jim Clark · 07-13-2008, 07:19 PM

Dose anyone else think it is absurd that a camping club has a "Grievance Committee"?

ROBERT CROSS · 07-13-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

Dose anyone else think it is absurd that a camping club has a "Grievance Committee"?

YEP

Well, sounds like it keeps them busy anyway.

overlander63 · 07-13-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

Dose anyone else think it is absurd that a camping club has a "Grievance Committee"?

I think it would be more appropriate if the camping club had a Master At Arms for rallies. He (or she) could be judge, jury, and "executioner", and no grievances would be needed.

Jim Clark · 07-13-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

I think it would be more appropriate if the camping club had a Master At Arms for rallies. He (or she) could be judge, jury, and "executioner", and no grievances would be needed.

Time for the Kevlar Blue Beret.

ibgl6 · 07-13-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

Dose anyone else think it is absurd that a camping club has a "Grievance Committee"?

I cant believe they are thinking about kicking this guy out of the club. I could see it if he had endangered others lives but I dont think that was the case? It's just a camping club supposed to be fun. I think I will stick around here and let the big boys fight it out.....SAM

tlavergne · 07-13-2008, 07:53 PM

I have said this before and I'll say it again...it didn't used to be this way. I began my A/S experience when I was a a kid in 1963 or so. My Grandparents and their peers were not like the current group running the show. Those old time Airstreamers were adventurous folks. Look at all the Central American, Mexican, African (yes, there was more than one), etc. caravans they did. You look at those old pics of Wally in his beret and a leather jacket with fringe (ala David Crosby) and an old pair of boots and you know what was important to them. Adventure, camping and friendships...that was what was important to them. If they were alive today they would be appalled at the current leadership. What is going on today is not what those original Airstreamers had in mind. Imagine one of the current "upper echelon" folks knee deep in mud building a bridge over some river in Thailand...no way, they couldn't do it...they wouldn't do it. They are not made of the same stuff. It's past time to go back to the original vision of Wally. Let's camp, have great adventures and make lifetime friends.
Tom

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 08:02 PM

Well, I think we should be cautious just a little - they haven't indicated that Bob would be kicked out. Only Jim Franklin is suggesting that and to tell the truth, if Jim wants to start with anybody - let him try to kick me out. I am a co-founder of SaveWally and we all know that SaveWally has been outspoken in it's views of the leadership. Bob is an impassioned guy and probably reached the end of his rope when he wrote the letter he did and ticked off a few people.
Jim can have me if he can take me. I don't think he can. But filing grievances on every member who speaks up with passion, weather right or wrong, does that REALLY warrent a grievance? Not to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibgl6

I cant believe they are thinking about kicking this guy out of the club. I could see it if he had endangered others lives but I dont think that was the case? It's just a camping club supposed to be fun. I think I will stick around here and let the big boys fight it out.....SAM

ibgl6 · 07-13-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Well, I think we should be cautious just a little - they haven't indicated that Bob would be kicked out. Only Jim Franklin is suggesting that and to tell the truth, if Jim wants to start with anybody - let him try to kick me out. I am a co-founder of SaveWally and we all know that SaveWally has been outspoken in it's views of the leadership. Bob is an impassioned guy and probably reached the end of his rope when he wrote the letter he did and ticked off a few people.
Jim can have me if he can take me. I don't think he can. But filing grievances on every member who speaks up with passion, weather right or wrong, does that REALLY warrent a grievance? Not to me.

oops I misunderstood I guess I should pay more attention It is crazy that they even have a committee I think they are all grown folks it's supposed to be fun....SAM

Buttercup · 07-13-2008, 08:27 PM

Na - you understood just fine - there are two issues on this thread - Jim Franklin's desires to kick people out of the club and Jim Franklin's grievances against outspoken members. The issues do blend together in that Jim is filing grievances AND Jim wants to kick out members.
Jim has little chance if any of having anybody kicked out because I thing you can hear the frustration in the responses he is getting over this. Listen to the audio and you will hear it. I hope thatthe IBT will become frustrated with Jim's aggressive stances and work around him. He is like a bull in a china ship and his people skills are not that good. He come from a mentality of a strong militaristic stance - remember him telling people to "stand down" at the 2006 delegates meeting. Who says "stand down"?
Anyway, I think Jim might be viewed as a stuffed shirt and his efforts bypassed - that is my hope, assuming that the IBT is trying to be more progressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibgl6

oops I misunderstood I guess I should pay more attention It is crazy that they even have a committee I think they are all grown folks it's supposed to be fun....SAM