Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-12-2008, 06:47 PM   #15
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Thanks for the Liepper whack - my reading and auditory skills are just fine. I think that just about any reasonable person reading or listening to Jim's comments would interpret "I think we need to be selective in our memberships and start looking at a way of terminating their membership..." as meaning that Jim is thinking of ways of terminating memberships in the club.
I have no doubt that you derive from Jim's comments some completely other meaning. Rather than take a whack at me, why not share your interpretation of the public statements Jim made. That might be illuminating you your statement about my reading skills...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
I think a bit better reading skills would help considerably in evaluating the allegations made.
__________________

__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 07:00 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Let me say right out front, I'm not a member of the Four Corners Unit. That being said...

I was in on the discussions when the 4CU was proposed. I like their point of view--it was an effort to get away from the formality of the WBCCI Boy Scout mentality--uniforms, oaths, etc. If the WBCCI was more like the 4CU, I'd rejoin.

I also like the Vintage Club. But, like the 4CU, they are chartered under the WBCCI, obstensibly for the insurance coverage offered under the corporate WBCCI unbrella. I find this very unfortunate.

We, the enthusiastic, could do more if we banded together. I'm not proposing a coup, but I would put forth the example of the 4CU maintenance rally last month down in Albuquerque. Ken and his team did an outstanding job of getting talent to show up and even let non-members participate. I think it revealed a strength in the SW that could be a potential basis for revamping the WBCCI--young leaders, a focus on technical help and social fun, low dues, and a minimum of formality. I'm sure this kind of enthusiasm for aluminum and rivets exists across the country (have we annexed Canada, yet?).

Zep
__________________

Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 07:18 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,025
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
WBCCI Adopting a new membership policy?

Past International President Jim Franklin has come up with a diagnosis and the solution for the WBCCI Membership decline. It appears to be a multi-pronged approach which involves getting rid of members who do not agree with the IBT's vision for the club and bringing the kind of members who do.

Let me start at the beginning.... In public statements Jim has been making in meetings which you can hear for yourself on WBCCI's web site, Jim has stated that it is you and I, the "bloggers" and Airforums members who are single handedly destroying the Club by posting negative comments about the club and the IBT.


This is not the first time Jim has suggested that. But now that he has determined that WBCCI's decline is due entirely to people talking down the club, he has a plan to correct the situation - get rid of the dissenters. So, if you are a member and you have been outspoken about the club, it's leadership or past leadership - you should expect the club to let you know that your membership may be revoked. Any comment that disparages the club or it's leadership can now get you into hot water! So for example, you mention that you do not like the club changing it's name or if you suggest that THOR motorhomes are not a good idea for the club - you are in Jim's sights.

Now, with the dissenters gone, what will boost the already sagging membership (not to mention replace all of the members who get kicked out after a review)? Well, Jim has a novel idea - force Airstream to make products that the club desires.


And not far behind that I am sure is letting in any product made by parent company THOR.


If Airstream will not make what the club desires, THOR would be happy to... WAIT! They already do. O.K. so why not just let those products in. And that is in fact what Jim has been working on for a few years and he may not stop until he gets his way.

Later Jim suggests about the bloggers:

It sounds like a which hunt to me. But after hearing that I ask - Jim, have you looked in the mirror on that statement? Have your own actions in the club cost membership? I know the resounding answer to be YES! Your positions on the name change and your past and current efforts on behalf of letting non-Airstream products into the club have caused many to throw their hands up and walk from this club. That being the case, would you yourself perhaps be a candidate for a little "restructuring".

I am sure there are better ways of dealing with a membership decline than to silence or get rid of those who do not share the at times frightening vision the leadership, like Jim Franklin, hold for the WBCCI. It is the dissenters of that vision that I hold as the protection of the very existence of this club.
Not on the subject but here is a soul mate to your "pet" of choice. This is the Naga, I have had him since I worked at Airstream in the 60's.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_2590.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	205.0 KB
ID:	63576  
__________________
PeeWee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 07:31 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
1975 29' Ambassador
Reno , Nevada
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,351
"This comes as news to me." - a lot of the news isn't - its fantasizing based on cynicism and paranoia, I think.

"run a brown shirts organization" [-- Godwin appears?]

"I think that the leadership is just scared" - predicting others' motivations or emotions is a risky endeavor. Better to stick to your own and be self aware.

"confrontational ... how else can we learn anything?" - by listening carefully, avoiding divisiveness, avoiding bigotry, and making sure we really understand each other. Making those with differing opinions an evil group or criminalizing those who do not agree does not help anyone.

"I was in on the discussions when the 4CU was proposed. I like their point of view" - I think you missed the original stimulus and pegged instead a take-over that I think was done via convenience.

There is much to observe. Of course we want to believe our perceptions are completely in line with reality and that our skills are superb. There is a name for this when it goes a bit over the top and it is a reminder that sometimes a bit of humility can serve us well.
__________________
bryanl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 07:41 PM   #19
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,189
As always when subjects like axles, tires, or the WBCCI come up, I would like to remind everyone to consider what the discussion would look like to a visitor to our forum, and comport ourselves in a reasonable manner, without stooping to personal shots, and our opinions of their psyche.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 07:58 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
2005 22' International CCD
Buckhorn , Ontario
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,773
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 5
Send a message via Skype™ to GT1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumatic View Post
FYI
It was the forum that actually played a role in my finally joining WBCCI
(just in case someone is listening)

Hey me too - But it was the Club and it's beaurocracy and lack of small intimate units in my province that made me decide to lapse both of my WBCCI memberships!!

Guess they still don't know how to get the stats and facts right.

However I do think that the report from the 2020 committee was the most foresight I have read in a very long time.

I just about chocked - when I read they were doing a "Survey" almost stopped reading on the spot - but then saw that the carried on to analyze what had been started in 2004 - the year we joined - heck that is 4 years ago and this club is still analyzing - what big spinning wheel -

just exactly how we feel with our vintage projects right now - and all we really want to do is get out and camp!!!!!

We don't need to spend $75.00 to do that - and now when your health goes to the toilet - the big red numbers don't mean diddley poop in the big scheme of things.......

We will join again when we see the value for us to join. Cause we love airstreams and love the people we meet whether they have a Red number or a blue number or not.....

Have faith folks things will change as the population changes it just takes time - like generations of time.......

Ditch the politics and go and have some fun in life for heavens sake - Life is too bloody SHORT!!!
__________________
Everything will be alright in the end. If it is not alright now, then it is not the end.
GT1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 08:30 PM   #21
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Question What

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper View Post
"confrontational ... how else can we learn anything?" - by listening carefully, avoiding divisiveness, avoiding bigotry, and making sure we really understand each other. Making those with differing opinions an evil group or criminalizing those who do not agree does not help anyone.
Confrontational...Oppose or face

Nothing about not listening, divisiveness, bigotry, or not understanding.
Evil, where did that come from? Criminal, your kidding of course
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 08:30 PM   #22
Rivet Master
 
TBRich's Avatar

 
2006 19' Safari SE
Tucson , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,483
Images: 64
If and when we were to join the WBCCI it will not be because of the WBCCI's marketing effort (if you can call it that)...it will be because of the folks we've encountered here on the Airforums.

Speaking as an "outsider" and asking myself, "Should I join?": To insist than any member with a dissenting opinion is an "enemy of the WBCCI" is enough to give any rational person reason for pause in joining the organization. That attitude does not make joining look very attractive to anyone! It's like saying, "If you are a member of WBCCI, and you dare to hold an opinion which is counter to our opinion...you will be removed." Hmmm. Let me think.
__________________
TB & Greg and Abbey Schnauzer
AirForums #21900 . Membership Chair, 4C
Unit #3954
Travel Log: AZBambi...On the Road Again
TBRich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 08:37 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
RIstream'n's Avatar
 
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Cumberland , RI
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
Thanx for the heads-up. I guess that I could be classified as an AIR Forums ringleader and, as such, maybe targeted for elimination by the IBT. That would sadden me greatly, but if I had to choose one, it would be AIR Forums.

It would be a very sad day indeed, if I could be kicked out of the WBCCI for not always agreeing with the club leadership. If I am involuntarily separated from WBCCI, I guarantee that I will not go quietly.

This may not be all bad. The WBCCI could morph into a Thor camper club, and these Forums will remain as the difinative Airstream Club of the future.

Brian
I think the forums should be or play a big part in the airstream club of the future.
__________________
Brian & Donna
08 27' Safari FB SE
03 Avalanche 2500
WBCCI #1199 - AIR #23847
NEU
LIFE IS GOOD
RIstream'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 09:03 PM   #24
Moderator
Commercial Member
 
eubank's Avatar
 
1967 30' Sovereign
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,423
You know, I don't mean to throw sand on anything, but because the matter at hand really does have to do with important issues, I'd really like to know when and where Jim Franklin came up with these proposals. Was it in the context of an IBT meeting? If so, where and when? Or was it in some forum or another? Again, when and where?

Again, I don't disbelieve the quotes, and I'd be among the last to trumpet the horn of the uppermost echelon of the WBCCI, but I also think it important to provide full context to statements that seem to inflammatory.


Lynn
__________________
WBCCI 21043
eubank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 09:36 PM   #25
WBCCI 11067 WDCU
 
ckeysor's Avatar
 
1986 25' Sovereign
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 198
Images: 30
I agree with many of the posts above. I was first an Airforums member and then joined the WBCCI (and the WDCU in particular) based on the comments in the forum. The organization has a wonderful history and I personally would like to see it survive.

I am also very pleased to see the update on the 2020 Vision on the WBCCI website. It takes a lot of courage for members of the WBCCI to face the brutal facts (stolen from Jim Collins).

I would also like to understand something a little better. It almost seems that a lot of the issues in the club stem from the very real differences in what each generation wants. I work in the senior living field and I amazed at how different the generational needs are.

Said a different way. The revival of Airstream has occurred because the company realized (finally) what the next generation of consumers wanted. The club will have to follow suite or unfortunately it will die a slow death. However, at no time should the current generation discount the accomplishments of the current leadership, its just different from what we would do.

I don't like the formality or the rules and I want to be around streamers with children, etc., but I plan on doing what I want to do and allow others to do what they want!
__________________
Chris Keysor
WBCCI 11067
1986 Sovereign 25' CB
2007 Chevy Silverado 1500
2007 Toyota Land Cruiser
ckeysor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 09:51 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
Jim Foster's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods , California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,615
Send a message via Yahoo to Jim Foster
Jim Franklin does not surprise me.

We attended our first WBCCI Region Rally a number of years ago, when Jim Franklin was President of that region. It was the Region 11 Rally in Casa Grande AZ. We parked with the vintage group in that dusty, dirty, ugly place and had a great time.

The Friday evening entertainment was a High School Band. They were really pretty good. An Airstreamer in the audience performed as a "One Man Band", but was not scheduled at this event. He was just a spectator. When the High School Band was on their brake, this Airstreamer talked to the band leader and was asked to join them on stage. He did, and they tore the house down. The audience went wild, if you can picture that.

The following morning the "One Man Band" Airstreamer was seen hauling out. He had been asked to leave the rally as he was not supposed to be part of the entertainment.
__________________
Jim Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 09:57 PM   #27
Full Timers/Diesel power.
 
Mike Leary's Avatar
 
1983 31' Airstream310
Cactus Hug , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,540
Images: 11
Wally, yes, the rest of the bunch, I don't belong, but I'll wave to classics.
__________________
"A settled wisdom, plus the itch to be elsewhere"
Mike Leary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 09:59 PM   #28
Liquid Cooled
 
RedSHED's Avatar
 
2014 16' Sport
Columbus , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 485
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
You know, I don't mean to throw sand on anything, but because the matter at hand really does have to do with important issues, I'd really like to know when and where Jim Franklin came up with these proposals. Was it in the context of an IBT meeting? If so, where and when? Or was it in some forum or another? Again, when and where?

Again, I don't disbelieve the quotes, and I'd be among the last to trumpet the horn of the uppermost echelon of the WBCCI, but I also think it important to provide full context to statements that seem to inflammatory.


Lynn
About 2/3 through the webcast.
I just listened to it (the Jim Franklin bit), and had a slightly different interpretation about the blog/forum aspect than the OP. You'd have to listen for yourself, I think, to decide.

OTOH, There seemed to be a truly fantastic amount of discussion about the nuances of reimbursements.
__________________

__________________
RedSHED is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
decline, membership, wbcci


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WBCCI's current plans to rebadge an SOB Class "A" motor home Melody Ranch WBCCI Forum 1 06-04-2007 09:02 PM
need help w/ insurance policy.. vintage value??? flamingo-kid1 Our Community 1 08-04-2003 09:30 PM
WBCCI's birthday 83Excella Our Community 0 06-09-2002 10:15 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.