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Old 10-01-2010, 06:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
....., but anyone that has followed the forums over the past few years and kept their eyes and ears in the community could possibly draw the same conclusion.
I wouldn't and I have seen more behind the scenes than most. OTOH, if it were me I would run from hosting WBCCI forums like it was a plague ship. But thats just me.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:06 PM   #16
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Ummm.... I am not Leo, Twink. I am Tim Kendziorski, VAC 3rd Vice President and VAC Webmaster and WBCCI #17330 among others.
Do you have any idea how bitter you sound right now?
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #17
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Ummm.... I am not Leo, Twink. I am Tim Kendziorski, VAC 3rd Vice President and VAC Webmaster and WBCCI #17330 among others.
Do you have any idea how bitter you sound right now?
Sure Tim. I'd be careful throwing stones in the glass houses.

Yea, I think I have a right to be somewhat unhappy with what has gone on, but that aside, it's amazing to me and also notable the twist/spin on how innocent AF has been to WBCCI.

I'm not sayin' they (WBCCI) didn't have and still doesn't have issues (some I agreed with, that you all brought up-- even though I never didn't acknowledge it in public), but there was a time, early on when this forum started where you didn't have to go too far before the chain got pulled. As an outspoken member, I can tell you my chain was pulled probably more than most...and for far less egregious things I might add. As a few "seasoned" members who have been here a while can tell you, the depth and latitude that was given in the subject of WBCCI on this forum was as the discretion of it's operator and agents...with little of it positive, so you can see how I'd question how anyone could think that they would ever take Andy up on his offer.

In the end, like I said, time heals all wounds...eventually.

It is what it is.....time to say goodnight Gracie.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #18
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Really? AirForums has some sort of responsibility to WBCCI? If that is true then the converse also exists, does it not? I Think it is fairly common knowledge at this point that the owner of the previous forums had a very poor relationship with Airforums. THAT relationship has done more to sever ties with the airstream community here than just about anything else (remember when no mention of AirForums was allowed over there?).

Yea, I hear your bitterness about AirForums in your writing but you know what, I think it has more to do with your own personal relationship with these forums than anything else. But I could be wrong. You are a hard one to figure out, Twink - you so strongly supported the WBCCI's forums but were not a member of WBCCI (that alone was a big issue for so many people). The owner of WBCCI's forums was, in my humble opinion, the type of person to play fairly with others. It has been discussed before - for example, http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ums-68420.html.
Documented differential and preferential treatment of actual members in good standing. I wonder if THAT is what caught up with the forums in the first place. It is a drastic move to shut down a forums that reported by some to be growing by leaps and bounds.
To me the question is, did the forums get shut down by WBCCI, or was it shut down by the owner? I hope my BIGGEST fear is not realized at this point - that all of the data - database, attachments, etc. - is not lost. I was afraid of this scenario and was outspoken about it and the primary reason this "partnership" should not have happened in the first place. I hope I am wrong and a backup exists somewhere.... Well, there is ONE backup I know of for WBCCI's old forums.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:45 PM   #19
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I hope my BIGGEST fear is not realized at this point - that all of the data - database, attachments, etc. - is not lost.
That should be proprietary property of the club, possible copyrights in question as well.

He also pulled the plug on his units web site over a disagreement.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:56 PM   #20
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That will be my big question, who pulled the plug on whom? If it was the true forums owner, then I would ask, did he leave the WBCCI high and dry, without a backup. If it was WBCCI, did they get a backup before pulling the plug. The more I think about this, the more I fear there just is no backup available to the club...... God, I hope I am wrong.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:17 PM   #21
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"Twink" reminds me of Sgt Schultz when Stalag #17 was shut down, out of a job.

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Old 10-01-2010, 07:49 PM   #22
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Not a member???

You mean Twink is not a WBCCI member? Man I thought the way he talked he paid dues just like me. Twink, tell me it ain't so.

As far as loosing Greg v. the data, I think us WBCCI members are way better off without him and that usless data/drivel.........

The King of the WBCCI Forums is dead? Thank GOD!
Lets start over with an open mind and an open Forum.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Yea, I think I have a right to be somewhat unhappy with what has gone on, but that aside, it's amazing to me and also notable the twist/spin on how innocent AF has been to WBCCI.

I'm not sayin' they (WBCCI) didn't have and still doesn't have issues (some I agreed with, that you all brought up-- even though I never didn't acknowledge it in public), but there was a time, early on when this forum started where you didn't have to go too far before the chain got pulled. As an outspoken member, I can tell you my chain was pulled probably more than most...and for far less egregious things I might add. As a few "seasoned" members who have been here a while can tell you, the depth and latitude that was given in the subject of WBCCI on this forum was as the discretion of it's operator and agents...with little of it positive, so you can see how I'd question how anyone could think that they would ever take Andy up on his offer.
I think you are alluding to the fact that you feel some topics were allowed to be discussed that in the past were not allowed or that more leeway was given to some topics that you think would give AIR some type of competitive advantage?

If that is what you are beating around the bush trying to say, then I'd like to educate our readers about how AIR is managed. The community is managed by a team of wonderful admins and moderators, most of which are or were members of the WBCCI. It's always been my intent to empower neutral and smart members to lead this community and allow them to determine where to draw the line in the sand. We have had internal discussions about how to allow what members want (ability to discuss sensitive subjects) while at the same time not letting the bad vibes ruin our fine community. We have made adjustments and they worked. We have always allowed links to other forums even when they did not allow links back to us. We remain open, accessible and continue to listen to the members and adjust based on their needs.

It's a lot easier to blame someone or something instead of looking within when we fail. Some of the messages members have been screaming seemed pretty simple and made sense but for what ever reason the machine seems unable or unwilling to evolve or change to meet their needs. Don't blame the communication system if you don't like the message. Some people would rather we censor certain topics but that's not what members want. Our ultimate responsibility is to our members and meeting their needs.

Keep in mind that 98% of the conversations that take place here at our community are not about any of these sensitive topics. If you are unable to see the big picture and only focus on seeing what you want to see then you are going to miss the whole point. This community is successful and will continue to be successful because of the 98% of positive information that is exchanged.
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:18 AM   #24
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I suppose it would not be good to lose the posts that were made over there, although I suspect there really was really little of substance posted in recent months. That is unless they archived all the deleted posts.
Over the last couple months I watched the opening page on a daily basis. It showed the 13 most recent posts. It was a rare day when less than 50% of those posts were made by one moderator.

I was chastised by twinkie a while back for suggesting that there was a situation where one person could pick up their ball and go home, killing the forum. It would appear likely that could have happened although we may never know. Of course that person leaving their ball there might have killed it also.

I guess what is important is where things goes from here.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:06 AM   #25
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Question

Why is it every time something occurs, like this issue of closing the WBCCI website, that we can't get a quick and straight answer as to why? This is just another example of leaving the membership in the dark as to "why?" and causing all of us to guess what happened. If they would just be up front with this instead of dancing around, the WBCCI could reduce, if not eliminate the feeling on mistrust.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:28 AM   #26
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Ed, I think it's pretty clear to a lot of people that errors were made with the old forums, some specific and some less so. These are pretty well documented and have been discussed at infinitum elsewhere, mostly by WBCCI members.

They stopped the forums and are now working their way towards some kind of different approach. My own approach now is to provide input on new directions and options, not to obsess on the past.


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Old 10-02-2010, 10:56 AM   #27
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I think that closing the forum is a good sign and a good first step. Whatever replaces it can't be any worse and should be better. Having NO WBCCI forum is better than what they had. However, unless the WBCCI allows an open forum like AirForums, they will never get the traffic they desire. I will not join any forum that censures the expression of ideas.

I could never understand Silvertwinkee being a nonmember of the WBCCI but his having so much passion and emotional commitment to the WBCCI. His passion and emotional commitment is higher than most WBCCI members. Just doesn't make sense to me. There has to be more to it; maybe one of his relatives was a past IP. He's not a mercenary as he wasn't being paid. We will never know.

We all have to remember that it is just a recreation club - nothing more. We can all take ourselves and the club too seriously. That takes the fun out of it.

It's important to keep everything in proper perspective; it keeps life simpler.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:14 PM   #28
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Why can't the host (who I understand was independent of WBCCI) just register a new domain like wbyamforum.com and point that at their forum? Then, all those original posts and valuable information can be made available to the membership again.

Further, being no longer endorsed by WBCCI there would not be a need to kowtow to the executive committees - resulting in free conversation and open dissent?

Or am I misunderstanding how the forum was configured/run?
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