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Old 02-07-2008, 08:26 AM   #99
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Trying to get members to be concerned with the governance of their own club is not negative. I am not onboard with the concept of the ethics clause because it inspires members to be quiet and accepting and to believe those clammouring for change and trying to get members motivated and behind the members who are going to the board to make a difference and still being shut out are making trouble. That is not true.

Don't assume people who think major change is necessary before 2020 do nothing but talk. That certainly would not be the facts. For every time someone says it's unfortunate I have to pay my dues to International to belong to my great unit or the VAC is just another feather in the IBT beret.

Naysayers helped spread awareness about the new name of your club and brand identity, they go to the IBT they work behind the scenes they write letters and proposals,feed from official proceedings, work with the liason committee, and they actually work at it and it isn't fun and it takes money and it takes time. It is too bad that effort is not appreciated. However if good can come of it, there will still be those that work diligently on change without awards and perks and in the face of insult from both ends.

Negative posts my foot! (is that a bad word?) The negitivity comes from the kind of attitudes that point their finger at another and tell them they are nothing but complainers, bloggers malcontents, while three are pointed back at themselves.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:53 AM   #100
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It takes work and nothing but work.

62Overlander, you said the very thing I've said many of times of this forum. If you don't like it, change it. If you are to lazy or unwilling to change it, enough already.

If you have been on the forums more than six months, you know all the problems with the WBCCI. Are they going to change over night? "NO". Are there people out there trying to make the changes needed, "Yes". Does the bashing encourage us to keep trying "No". Trust me on this one folks, those of us trying to make the WBCCI a club of fun, camping and having a good time, know all the problems with the many(not all) members of the IBT. Are there good folks of the IBT trying to make changes, YOU BET! My Region 2 Prez and the Region 1 Prez are trying.

I'm sorry the WBCCI is not like Wal-Mart or Target were you can go and get everything you need in a one stop shopping. I would say the WBCCI maybe more like the USA. You had founding fathers that stepped up and did the work needed to get the club going and make it great! With the WBCCI, much like the USA we are having a War (north/south)(young/old) that is wanting to make changes that in the end hopefully will make us better and stronger than ever before. Are there people fighting those changes? You bet!

No one said good things come easy. Many things in life takes hard work. It's easy to sit back and type away about all the bad things with the WBCCI. It's a bunch more work to host rallies, plan caravans, make fun times for all. The key words there is "FOR ALL" young, old, laid back, tight *ss, etc....

Oh well, just wanted to chime in.

I need to get back to work on the "East Coast VAC Rally" got lot's to do. It's a bunch of work, but it will be worth it!
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:00 AM   #101
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If statistics are not interpreted and employed as an indication of WBCCI wellness then they are meaningless. Volley the ball and don't stop the game. If the WBCCI does not change its method of operation the club will continue to suffer. You can try singing its laurels until the cows come home and convince people that you are having fun and recruit new members but if simultaneously you also do not address the bigger picture, even more members are out that door or never entered it to begin with because of the way the club is being run at the top levels and that holds a huge impact upon membership stats.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:36 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
. You can try singing its laurels until the cows come home and convince people that you are having fun and recruit new members but if simultaneously you also do not address the bigger picture, even more members are out that door or never entered it to begin with because of the way the club is being run at the top levels and that holds a huge impact upon membership stats.
I have to disagree. This club was built from the ground up and if in fact it is broken, it will need to be fixed from the ground up. The clubs leadership is grown out of the units. Happy and healthy units will spawn good leadership. Complacent, uninvolved units will yield unresponsive free wheeling leadership.

Mike's original point in starting this thread was that in spite of the IBT issues, in some quarters there is a high level of satisfaction with membership in the club as evidenced by the strong net growth numbers. Though it is important for us to "keep an eye" on our current leadership, it is more important for the future of the club to focus on working for happy healthy local units.

I have certainly done my share of IBT bashing, but I have to agree with Frank's concern that if we find ourselves focused on our troubles we will likely lose sight of what is good.

To me, the lesson to be learned is: Take a look at the successful units, determine what has made them grow and work to create similarities in our own units to achieve the same results. From this will emerge an IBT that we can all be happy with.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:05 PM   #103
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For my part I honestly am sorry that you see my posts as a negative to the club and intrusive to this thread. I can tell you I care passionately about the WBCCI.

I have been a member of WBCCI since 2004, first as a member of the Metro Detroit unit, then a MAL and then WDCU and a member of the CAC and associate of FCU. And yes my dues did not flow forthwith automatically this October as a means to be my voice and to test the follow up on nonrenewals. To date there have been no inquiries from WDCU, 4CU, CAC or WBCCI. I most likely will send my dues in the forseeable future. Collectively I think there are more members who have done similarly as a flag to the bean counters. Numbers speak and so does revenue. As for rallies, I have helped plan and hold two forum rallies, one in Michigan, Metro Detroit LPPI 1 and another in Ohio, the women's Rivettes Summer Solstice.

I thought I would like to offer up to you my involvement in the WBCCI to curtail assumptions that have been posted.

I have been to unit, state, International and IBT rallies. I have visited WBCCI headquarters in Ohio. With a fair amount of first hand experience and an open ear to others' experiences and proposed changes to the club I became motivated to do more in the areas of my concern. I was a team member of Save Wally since it's inception in response to the name change issue, it continued to the brand identity issue and voting procedures.
I have researched and gathered and helped draft and send letters and revisions until I was bleary eyed. I have e-mailed supporters and unit presidents, sent out packets and buttons and and traveled and worked getting information out and trying to make a difference. I have tried to learn Roberts rules and examine the constitution and by-laws as they pertain to current issues. I have read amendments and constitution replacement motions and follow club proceedings.

I traveled from Michigan to Oregon to be present for the name change vote. I traveled to Georgia to attend the midwinter IBT meetings and sat attentively for days learning all I could on how the club operates and taking notes and audio so every member could have access to proceedings whether they could be present or not. And I can tell you, most members were not present. I may just have been one of the only members present that was not an officer in WBCCI.

I was asked to be on the special committee of Communication Liason, while I was still active with the chairwoman, I did decline thinking I did not want to be in a position that might be a conflict of interest being a team member of Save Wally. However Renee actually introduced me to the IBT in session as an example of a positive member that came out from Airstream Forums in her committee report. You are surprised aren't you? Actually I was too, I had no idea she was going to do that. I think the reason she had done that was because she was impressed with my post she had found on the forums and asked if it could be printed in the Blue Beret. There is a full page article highlighting the International rallies that I wrote entitled the Hub-bub of Airstream City on page 31 of the April 2007 Blue Beret. And I also have 1/2 page comment printed in the April 2007 Blue Beret page 26 in the Member Idea Share on "What Makes WBCCI Great." Several of my suggestions have been implimented. Renee and I exchanged information by request of the International President Don Shaffer for providing simulcasts in the future. I was asked by the First Lady to send in photos and to submit a proposed expense report to take pictures at the International. I also was able to carry a statement from 4CU, distribute buttons for them and call with the results of the unit charter. This time the charter motion was withdrawn and I spoke to their region president in regard to the withdrawal and conveyed that information as well.

I may not be an officer and a gentleman but I don't think you can honestly say I just complain and type and do nothing.

So please forgive me in both interrupting this thread topic and having the vanity to make my own defense.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:38 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Mikethefixit
I get junk mail everyday Im wondering how long it will take someone to sell my name to WBCCI .We have no active unit here Im told, and we are right in the backyard of the National Office.I hear all the members are so old they dont rally anymore. So Why should I spend my money on WBCCI or its unit ,What are they gonna do for me?Oh Thanks MIKE for the intresting stats. Help's me make up my mind. Sorry to be negitive.
Roger
Roger, et all, to me there is a significant difference in the rationality of WBCCI and the Airforums group..........the Airforums group are internet wise weekend ralliers. Typically they are working and / or with children and cannot take off for months at a time on caravans.

Now, you ask what WBCCI and the old fogies have for you...the answer is the same reason you support a church or the heart fund or MADD or American Cancer Society or any other organization wherein you believe your support will some day reward you. You will at some time still enjoy traveling with peers for months at a time and the WBCCI will provide opportunities to do so.

There is no experience comparable to spending 3 to 4 months with like souls traveling Alaska, NewFoundland, The Baja or any of the 30 or so caravans that WBCCI does every year.

You really get to know people what you spend this much time with them, this comradery (stepping out on a limb) is not so easily garnered with the Airforms group.

I support both for their missions, but do recognise and understand both objectives.

Gerry
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:45 PM   #105
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Carol,
I can only thank you again for being the 4CU eyes and ears at that mid-winter IBT meeting. I think you were the only member (associate) not to renew this year with the 4CU. If you rejoin the club, I'll pay your 4CU dues for you (again)
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:47 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by wheel interested
For my part I honestly am sorry that you see my posts as a negative to the club and intrusive to this thread. I can tell you I care passionately about the WBCCI.
Carol,
I don't doubt your commitment or passion regarding the WBCCI. In fact, I don't think any of the comments in recent posts (that seem to have you riled up) were meant to be critical of your contribution to the club. The point Frank was making and others (including myself) supported is that the substance of this thread indicates there is positive growth in many sectors of the organization. This is cause for celebration and encouragement. This does not mean the problems for which you are concerned should be disregarded... just that once in a while they can be set aside so that we can focus on what's good and healthy.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:42 PM   #107
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we need some more rules in the WBCCI.

you can have the club, the news letter and the crap that goes w/ it.

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Old 02-07-2008, 05:46 PM   #108
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As far as paying money to folks who don't care.......
Dues are paid to the club, not to people. The leaders in WBCCI may do things I don't like or agree with, they may have different motivations but all of the leaders I have run across do very much care. If they didn't care they wouldn't get involved. They wouldn't spend often years serving their Units and WBCCI. They wouldn't be willing to spend their time and their money to support their participation in the club. Why do that if you don't care? It isn't the few benefits they get. There are other ways to get much more without the headaches. It would be so much easier to lurk on the sidelines and complain, go play golf, just go camping with your friends or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim foster
My wife and I are, like you, not joiners.
The majority of our Unit membership is non joiners but we sure do have a great time at our rallies. I think they all would say that they are glad they decided this time, to be joiners.
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:34 PM   #109
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I have read the entire thread 5 times now and cannot help but think post #99 was directed toward me. Maybe not the whole post, but the last paragraph sure was. And to the post I want to say:
(A) Yes I am a blogger. I post to my blog usually three times a week. It is a Airstream restoration blog.I am very proud of my blog. Blog spot hosts it for free and I have not allowed any advertisements to be placed on it. I have readers from all around the world (there are Airstreamers in Finland, Slovinia, Greece, South Africa and many other countries) and average about 450 views a week. I am documenting every aspect of renovating my Airstream so others can see how I did it, how I made mistakes along the way and how solutions were found to correct them... I even throw in some success stories to mix it up. I am bias, however I think I have a great blog, and the response I get has been very positive.
(B) malcontent. That one threw me, so much so that I went and pulled out my Oxford Dictionary. The definition is: 1 a discontented person: a: one who bears a grudge from a sense of grievance or thwarted ambition b: one who is in active opposition to an established order or government: REBEL.
2 dissatisfied with the state of affairs: DISCONTENTED
I have been discontented about the WBCCI bashing, yes, but others that have posted fit the description a lot better than me. Go back and read again now that you know the definition.
(C) Yes, when I point, three fingers are pointing back, but two eyes are looking right at the person I am pointing at. Nothing I say, ever, would I not, say directly to anyone. I have no shame about what I say and always speak honestly and directly in any situation. I always sitting around the campfire as I speak.
My observation is that when a discussion is launched about the WBCCI, it always turns into a bash festival. I am tired of that and wish it were different.
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:55 PM   #110
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Actually blogger was the term contemptuously and mistakenly used at the IBT midwinter rally by one of the region presidents on the recording about forum users, so not referring to you as a blogger.

MALs have often been chided and held in derision and called MAL-contents somewhat tongue in cheek by others in the past.

My references predate you and this thread by a number of years.

In the spirit of celebration of good units and my concession that my criticism has been misplaced in this thread of WBCCI units bucking the trend, I apologize. I guess I was bucking the buckers
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:57 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by wheel interested
...So please forgive me in both interrupting this thread topic and having the vanity to make my own defense.
hey c...

no need 4 forgiveness.

you've once again been more than polite,

and very nicely conveyed a position that many paying members, former members and potential members hold.

there is no need to explain, respond or defend your contribution.

most of us get it.

and many agree on these issues.

and once the meds kick in, we can get back to the primary topic of membership data, unit trends and what it all means....

cheers
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:25 AM   #112
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boy oh boy, do I feel like a fool! Don't regret what I said, but sure feel foolish once again. Thank you, it is good to be knocked off the soap box and put in my place. And with all that , I unsubscribe... good luck with the bucking and the bitching.
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